Machinist needs serious attention

[Sylve]

I hate to pick at your post, but I personally do not find Split Shot "spammable." My GCD atm is 2.46secs. Perhaps that gets better, but from what I heard it doesn't. If it does, please correct me. Anything that takes over 2seconds to wait on to me is not spammable. Also, saying that it procs is misleading. I don't know how well you pay attention to your procs, or maybe you get much better RNG than I do, but it rarely procs with a 90sec cooldown and a 30second cooldown.

I honestly feel like this is where a lot of the confusion is coming in with this class. On paper, sure, Sylve, that sounds great, but when I play it, it ends up running extremely subpar. Again, I could be wrong in how things end up, a lot of the information I'm getting are from other level 60s, but your post just makes it sound way better than what is actually happening in game.

Then by your definition, no skill in the game is spammable since it a 2.5 second baseline recast for literally everything thats on the global recast.

Split Shot is spammable in that it does not require a previous shot to do its full potency.
It is very much an analogue to Bards Heavy Shot. Its the skill you cast a over and over unless something else is proccing, like a Slug/Clean Shot or GR/HG is ready.

I've said this a few times, but it bears repeating until people get it.
An instant weaponskill is deals damage and then waits 2,5 seconds to do anything else
A 1.5 second cast speed weaponskill does damage after 1.5 seconds, however you STILL must wait out the remainder of the global recast that began when you initiated the weaponskill, so you have a full 1 second in which to determine if something procced, check Buff/debuff durations, cooldown readiness and use off global shots.

The only thing you might otherwise do without GB or WM on is Auto Attack. But Autos are weak and a flat 20% damage buff to every shot you use more than makes up for it, especially since the only shots you ever actually have to cast are Hot/Lead/Split. You dont use Slug or Clean without the Ammo, which makes them instant.
So not using Gauss Barrel causes you to deal less damage with your main combo as well as cutting damage done from Lead Shots DoT AND losing Gauss Round.

Yes, RNG absolutely can kick us in the teeth sometimes. I will not and cannot deny that. But with proper use of Reload timings and damage buffs, you can limit the impact of not getting your procs.
Maybe we'll get some buffs, i wont complain if we do, but i am sick of people making threads about the casts are somehow destroying our DPS.
Its a Job that rewards playing well and is very noticeable when you are not.

PS: Quick Reload is 30 seconds and Reload is 60. Theres 30 seconds of downtime after using a Reload before its ready again, Provided you're using the time between shots on off globals and activating damage buffs.

Can't auto attack, and if you strafe and keep yourself facing the boss as much as possible auto attacks tend to add up to a little over 20%. Same issue with WM on Brd.

If you're in a situation where you simply cannot get the opportunity to stand still for a moment, Then dropping the WM/GB until you re-position properly is probably what the devs intended. Then again, For MCH, if you know such a phase is coming, you can mitigate slightly by using Rapid Fire to make Split Shot instant so you can pop a couple of those off while moving.

[Jandor]

How do you figure its a DPS loss?
Thats a flat 20% buff to all damage, while ammo procs make Slug and Clean Shots instant cast. We also get access to a 20 second recast off global 200 potency shot (Gauss Round) to combine with the 100 potency off global Head Graze. Which all benefits from the Gauss Barrel 20% buff.
Meanwhile, the Turret is blasting away happily and all i lost were weak, barely noticeable auto attacks.
Gauss Barrel went on at lvl 52 and literally hasn't come off. My kill times are significantly faster with Gauss Barrel on.

Auto-attacks make up a very significant chunk of damage.

I've seen it mentioned quite a lot in various place, a quick search turns up this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=469259023

[Krylo]

The only thing you might otherwise do without GB or WM on is Auto Attack. But Autos are weak and a flat 20% damage buff to every shot you use more than makes up for it

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...nly_gb_opener/

Or, more concisely:

1st Parse was done using solely GB and never turning it off.

http://imgur.com/gallery/8RusITo/new

2nd Parse and the rotation which I use for dungeons was done with a GB opener but then disabled after the 1st Clean Shot. I only ever went back to GB was when Rapid Fire was up and it was use to burst into a Wildfire then toggle back off after the duration.

http://imgur.com/eyP814t

Note the second does about 10% more DPS than the first.

[LittleArrow]

-SNIP-.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately for me I guess, I've read way too much evidence in reddit that proves that this Job's DPS is far too low and cast times do affect it. Not to mention I see it in game and I know my skill as a player is generally high (I know, that's my opinion and you can't take that too far). If you feel that my 'thread' is just about the casts, then I'm sorry for that, because it certainly isn't. That's just one hang up I have about this job among many other.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one. I apologize for getting my cooldown timers wrong, it's been a long day lol. I also apologize for not articulating my argument as well as many others have before me, but tbh my brain is going a mile a minute on way too many issues and it's hard for me to focus on just one. I'm sure they have a name for that XD

[Sylve]

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...nly_gb_opener/

Or, more concisely:
Note the second does about 10% more DPS than the first.

I'd like to point out that a Job that leans on RNG to get the most out of it, a sample size of 2 is not large enough.
Hell, its not even enough to account for luck with crits.
Also, I'd like to point out the extremely short test time. 3:36 for GB and 3:44 without it.

In order for such parses to useful evidence, he would need to do the tests multiple times per mode for up to 10 minutes at a time. No raid fight is over in 3 minutes flat.

In short, small sample size, even smaller time window.
When we get a list of 20~ parses of GB and another 20 without it, each lasting for exactly 10 minutes, THEN we can draw proper conclusions about its overall damage dealing capacity.

[Krylo]

I'd like to point out that a Job that leans on RNG to get the most out of it, a sample size of 2 is not large enough.
Hell, its not even enough to account for luck with crits.
Also, I'd like to point out the extremely short test time. 3:36 for GB and 3:44 without it.

There's more with bard. The short test time helps the GB/WM parses as the longer a fight goes on the less that initial burst when it's actually good matters to the overall DPS. Like I said, bum around reddit for theory crafting. Don't just decide on your own.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ttack_potency/

Short version is that auto attacks are 100 potency every 3 seconds. Or, to put it another way, that's 83.3 potency every GCD. Not using auto-attacks is roughly the equivalent of uncasting your turret. The difference between good and great melee DPS is often just whether they know to strafe for positioning (thus allowing their auto attacks to continue) or not, as moving from flank to back without strafing costs auto attacks and can easily cut total DPS down by over 10%. Honestly, even summoners should be auto-attacking if it's a boss they can stand next to safely. Thwacking him whenever they use an instant cast adds up to something like an 8% increase in DPS despite not being able to attack when using any spells with a cast time. Auto-attacks are not negligible or forgettable.

By current math I believe auto-attack is about 23% of total DPS (varies between classes/jobs though), but I'm much too lazy to trawl about in old threads until I can find that.

[Jandor]

When we get a list of 20~ parses of GB and another 20 without it, each lasting for exactly 10 minutes, THEN we can draw proper conclusions about its overall damage dealing capacity.

But you said it's a DPS increase without all that stuff...

[KylePearlsand]

I can get behind many of these points. However, there is also one more I'd like to add. If I recall, most dps jobs have some way to heal themselves. Whether it be through second wind or cure. Machinist on the other hand doesn't seem to have either of these which makes solo content in heavensward in particular a bit of a risk.

[Taika]

I wonder which spot Machinist is supposed to take in a raid party. Is it supposed to compete with BRD for that one support spot? I doubt it, and if not, it should definitely be doing significantly more damage than a BRD.

BRD is the exact spot we're supposed to take, hence the robotic disco balls of MP/TP regen .

At the moment Machinist seems to offer less damage and less utility (no damage boost for other jobs), so I can't see this happening.

[Jandor]

I can get behind many of these points. However, there is also one more I'd like to add. If I recall, most dps jobs have some way to heal themselves. Whether it be through second wind or cure. Machinist on the other hand doesn't seem to have either of these which makes solo content in heavensward in particular a bit of a risk.

Can we have potion cooldown reduction trait please Yoshi, for great flavour and heal potion usage .

I wonder which spot Machinist is supposed to take in a raid party. Is it supposed to compete with BRD for that one support spot? I doubt it, and if not, it should definitely be doing significantly more damage than a BRD.

BRD is the exact spot we're supposed to take, hence the robotic disco balls of MP/TP regen .