Defensive ability, WAR VS DRK

[Kaedan]

Hi all,

So it feels like that in a raid environment (from what we know) there are reservations on DRKs mainly due to tank busters. I could stick it out with DRK as I like the style, but I already played WAR when it was broken. I remember how it was difficult to find a group for Titan (although I did get my Bravura back then) because nobody wanted you to tank it, and they wanted a DPS in your place. And now it got fixed and I am once again putting myself in a situation where I am playing the underdog. I don't think I want to do that again...

So I'll leave the DRK for now. Shame, I really like the style. I prefer the AOE to that of the WAR as well.

It is a shame, since there's no real reason for you to drop it. Most of the people in this thread claiming DRK will suck for end-game content either don't do the math, or do the math badly. They're going off of pure gut feeling.

DRK will be fine for raid content.

[Xariann]

It is a shame, since there's no real reason for you to drop it. Most of the people in this thread claiming DRK will suck for end-game content either don't do the math, or do the math badly. They're going off of pure gut feeling.

DRK will be fine for raid content.

Funny you should mention that, I didn't get many level 60s (and even then we don't really have any significant raid content) come to this thread yet. I have a friend who keeps telling me, "You like it, you wouldn't be posting about it on the forums if you didn't. You know you should play it."

[Tila]

It is a shame, since there's no real reason for you to drop it. Most of the people in this thread claiming DRK will suck for end-game content either don't do the math, or do the math badly. They're going off of pure gut feeling.

DRK will be fine for raid content.

It could also be that they bring nothing to the table and are outshined in e every category by WAR, except magic mitigation, which 1. Isnt as useful as it seems and 2. They arent that much better at it. They just need buffs and tweaking at the moment. Not saying WAR is OP mind you, just DRK is more comparable to WAR than PLD. DRK cant do anything better than PLD but dps and magic mitigate. And they arent that far ahead in DPS.

[Kaedan]

It could also be that they bring nothing to the table and are outshined in e every category by WAR, except magic mitigation, which 1. Isnt as useful as it seems and 2. They arent that much better at it. They just need buffs and tweaking at the moment. Not saying WAR is OP mind you, just DRK is more comparable to WAR than PLD. DRK cant do anything better than PLD but dps and magic mitigate. And they arent that far ahead in DPS.

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

I just MT'd Ravana and there were no issues dealing with the heavy hits. I had plenty of CDs to handle them. In fact, I swapped MT with the PLD after the first failure. Succeeded the second time. Sure, it's not raids, but if a WAR can MT a raid, a DRK can do so just as well or better. As far as OT, WAR is probably a little better than DRK, but not by much.

As I said, most of the negative-Nancy replies are coming from gut reactions, and for some reason most of it is coming from WARs. I don't know if they feel threatened or what...

[Launched]

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

WAR will outmitigate DRK any day of the week. It has Inner Beast (20% damage reduction) for every tank buster, and each IB will also have one of:
Vengeance (equal to Shadow Wall on a shorter cooldown)
Raw Intuition (another 20% vs physical attacks)
Thrill of Battle (and possibly Equilibrium).

WAR can also use stuff like Foresight/Awareness/Convalescence just with IB while DRK needs to stack them with a full cooldown.

[Kaedan94]

Like I said above, Odin's fight is a good way to see the differences.
PLD has 5 preemptive defense CD, so you always have one ready for each Sangetall. WAR has Inner Beast. That alone is enough to mitigate every hit too.

WAR will outmitigate DRK any day of the week. It has Inner Beast (20% damage reduction) for every tank buster, and each IB will also have one of:
Vengeance (equal to Shadow Wall on a shorter cooldown)
Raw Intuition (another 20% vs physical attacks)
Thrill of Battle (and possibly Equilibrium).

WAR can also use stuff like Foresight/Awareness/Convalescence just with IB while DRK needs to stack them with a full cooldown.

Inner Beast isn't always available. Requires Infuriated. DRK has more defensive CDs, though that's a wash with the fact WAR has IB. Which is why I said they don't have any defensive advantage.

[Faytte]

Inner Beast isn't always available. Requires Infuriated. DRK has more defensive CDs, though that's a wash with the fact WAR has IB. Which is why I said they don't have any defensive advantage.

Whhhat? No...if you know a fight, Inner beast is ALWAYS available. It doesnt take long to get 5 stacks and Infuriate is a quick CD. I don't know what warrior does not have IB up for every single tank buster. The only time that it MIGHT happen is in t13, but any other fight, from death sentence to revelation, you have plenty of time to get back to 5 stacks, and in most cases, use an ability and then get BACK up to 5 stacks. This is MORE the case now that you can gain stacks as an off tank and swap into being a main tank with them ready.

[Reynhart]

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

Like I said above, Odin's fight is a good way to see the differences.
PLD has 5 preemptive defense CD, so you always have one ready for each Sangetall. WAR has Inner Beast. That alone is enough to mitigate every hit too.
As a DRK, I have 4 cooldowns (Shadow Skin, Shadow Wall, Dark Dance and Living Dead)., and they pop pretty fast, since Odin use its tankbuster very frequently. Maybe I lack some experience as a DRK, but it's far more difficult. And Dark Dance is far from reliable.

Living Dead, especially is a problem. The "get full HP or die" is pretty gruesome when healers have to heal the whole raid. Several times, I ended with two SCH, who, pre-50, seriously lack some pure healing efficiency.

Besides, I think DRK has the same problem than WAR in 2.0. Self-healing is good, but it's hardly enough without a good mitigation tool above it. That's why they changed Inner Beast, and I wonder if we will see the same kind of adjusment for DRK in a future patch.

Another route for DRK could be that they'd be designed specifically for dual tank situations, but they'd need a far higher DPS to make it competitive when compared to solo tank setup with one more DPS.

[Syfer22]

I like the concept of Living Dead, but the execution leaves much to be desired. It's a godmode button that requires too much work and attention to mitigate in comparison to Hallowed Ground/Holmgang.

And heaven forbid if you have to pop it in a dungeon... While you could say "you must be bad if you have to pop it in a dungeon, pshaw," there are times when you might have to -- And honestly, it doesn't seem feasible for a single healer to heal you back to full in 10 seconds on reaction, much less with a boss or multiple mobs wailing on you.