Defensive ability, WAR VS DRK

[Kaedan]

It could also be that they bring nothing to the table and are outshined in e every category by WAR, except magic mitigation, which 1. Isnt as useful as it seems and 2. They arent that much better at it. They just need buffs and tweaking at the moment. Not saying WAR is OP mind you, just DRK is more comparable to WAR than PLD. DRK cant do anything better than PLD but dps and magic mitigate. And they arent that far ahead in DPS.

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

I just MT'd Ravana and there were no issues dealing with the heavy hits. I had plenty of CDs to handle them. In fact, I swapped MT with the PLD after the first failure. Succeeded the second time. Sure, it's not raids, but if a WAR can MT a raid, a DRK can do so just as well or better. As far as OT, WAR is probably a little better than DRK, but not by much.

As I said, most of the negative-Nancy replies are coming from gut reactions, and for some reason most of it is coming from WARs. I don't know if they feel threatened or what...

[Launched]

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

WAR will outmitigate DRK any day of the week. It has Inner Beast (20% damage reduction) for every tank buster, and each IB will also have one of:
Vengeance (equal to Shadow Wall on a shorter cooldown)
Raw Intuition (another 20% vs physical attacks)
Thrill of Battle (and possibly Equilibrium).

WAR can also use stuff like Foresight/Awareness/Convalescence just with IB while DRK needs to stack them with a full cooldown.

[Reynhart]

How does a WAR outshine a DRK in defense? In offense as an OT, sure. As a MT, WAR doesn't really have anything over DRK. PLD is still going to be the "safest" MT.

Like I said above, Odin's fight is a good way to see the differences.
PLD has 5 preemptive defense CD, so you always have one ready for each Sangetall. WAR has Inner Beast. That alone is enough to mitigate every hit too.
As a DRK, I have 4 cooldowns (Shadow Skin, Shadow Wall, Dark Dance and Living Dead)., and they pop pretty fast, since Odin use its tankbuster very frequently. Maybe I lack some experience as a DRK, but it's far more difficult. And Dark Dance is far from reliable.

Living Dead, especially is a problem. The "get full HP or die" is pretty gruesome when healers have to heal the whole raid. Several times, I ended with two SCH, who, pre-50, seriously lack some pure healing efficiency.

Besides, I think DRK has the same problem than WAR in 2.0. Self-healing is good, but it's hardly enough without a good mitigation tool above it. That's why they changed Inner Beast, and I wonder if we will see the same kind of adjusment for DRK in a future patch.

Another route for DRK could be that they'd be designed specifically for dual tank situations, but they'd need a far higher DPS to make it competitive when compared to solo tank setup with one more DPS.

[Faytte]

1) Almost all tank busters are physical not magical
2) Warriors do more dps than a drk, MT or OT. As an MT they lose 25% from stance, gain 20% from maim (-5% total) which is the same as the DRK (-20% from grit + 15 from darkside), however, Warriors can debuff the enemy (can be shared, sure) berserk , infuriate (meaning they go from -5% to +20% or then stack cds at this point for mega damage).

As an OT, not even a comparison is it? Deliverance is auto 5%, maim is 20%, stacks give crit chance. You can spam dark arts /soul siphon and run into mana issues after 3-4 rotations, which has its own issues.

3) Reprisal stinks. Cant apply as an OT. No real control as an MT. Has gaps in its uptime.
4) -10% int buff is probably the least useful damage debuff. It helps--sure, but nothing like storms path or rage of halone.

[Giantbane]

1)2) Warriors do more dps than a drk, MT or OT. As an MT they lose 25% from stance, gain 20% from maim (-5% total) which is the same as the DRK (-20% from grit + 15 from darkside),

that's not math

Warrior damage with defiance = 0.75 * 1.2 = .9 = 90% of normal damage
DRK damage with with grit = 0.8 * 1.15 = .92 = 92% of normal damage.

[MythToken]

Also being the only tank to be able to mitigate magic damage will probably come in handy.

While in the past yes tankbusters have been physical. I don't see why people assume raiding in Alexander will not be designed with the new classes in mind.
There will be a heavy magic damage phase or tank buster on at least 1 boss that DRK's will excel at.

[Launched]

Also being the only tank to be able to mitigate magic damage will probably come in handy.

What? You do realise that Rampart, Sentinel, IB, Vengeance, Convalescence etc. help with all kinds of damage and not just physical, right?

[MythToken]

What? You do realise that Rampart, Sentinel, IB, Vengeance, Convalescence etc. help with all kinds of damage and not just physical, right?

Yeah i do realize that, but i was responding to the argument that having a magic damage reduction ability was useless.

Sorry to make it sound like they were the only tank who could avoid magic damage altogether.
I was accounting for the fact that DRK has access to Conva, Shadow Wall, and Shadow Skin.
Which would be = to a PLD Rampart Sentinel
or a War Vengence IB

What is left over that they do not share is a specific magic reduction ability, aka Dark Mind.

Not sure how a unique ability won't benefit them in a raid setting.

My original wording was poor. and should have been "Also being the only tank to have an ability to specifically mitigate magic damage will probably come in handy."

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I agree, Warrior is really powerful and a lot of DRK abilities seem clunky. This is probably because they are a new class. I expect several buffs to DRK actually.

I don't expect them to nerf warrior though. They have a powerful kit.

[Tila]

I agree, Warrior is really powerful and a lot of DRK abilities seem clunky. This is probably because they are a new class. I expect several buffs to DRK actually.

I don't expect them to nerf warrior though. They have a powerful kit.

Warrior is fine, they're a great OT while PLD is still the best MT.

The problem is that DRK has no place because PLD was pretty much designed to be a MT and WAR was pretty much designed to be a OT. They do these two rolls so well that there is no place for DRK to squeeze in. At most they can be a halfway point, but when it comes to progression, you'll always want that brave little turtle PLD up till you outgear it, then you'll want the warriors superior DPS.