Defensive ability, WAR VS DRK

[Launched]

For dungeons, it doesn't really matter. All 3 tanks have enough for any trash or boss.

For trials/raids, WAR has much more mitigation. Inner Beast will be up for every tankbuster. On top of that they'll also have one of Vengeance, Thrill of Battle, or Raw Intuition. WAR can also use stuff like Foresight, Convalescence and Awareness just with Inner Beast, which PLD and DRK can't do because their effects are pretty weak by themselves.

DRK only has Shadowskin (equal to IB in mitigation), Shadow Wall (Vengeance with a longer cooldown and shorter duration), Dark Mind (which is limited to magic) and Dark Dance (low % to dodge/parry which will be completely unreliable in any raid). Foresight, Convalescence/Awareness would need to be paired with another cooldown.

[Reynhart]

For trials/raids, WAR has much more mitigation. Inner Beast will be up for every tankbuster.

I've not experienced Heavensward content, but for older one, this is only true in theory.
Tankbuster aren't frequent enough so that PLD don't have any cooldown ready for it.
And at level 52, they gain Sheltron, which is up every 30 second, far enough for every tankbuster too.

On top of that they'll also have one of Vengeance, Thrill of Battle, or Raw Intuition. WAR can also use stuff like Foresight, Convalescence and Awareness just with Inner Beast, which PLD and DRK can't do because their effects are pretty weak by themselves

How come you took into account new skills for WAR but not for PLD ? PLD can use a better Convalescence with Clemency for several really high heals when needed.
I'm not sure if Divine Veil works if the PLD heals himself, but if it does, you also gain a very high barrier for each of these boosted Clemency.

As for Foresight, the effect is exactly the same for PLD and WAR, except the cooldown is longer, which is, again, not a problem as long as tankbusters don't come more often. And you can pair it with Bulwark too.


EDIT : Oook, little off-topic since PLD is not really part of the initial topic. Sorry for derailing

[AniCelestine]

sipziphowever

I remember death sentences with no available CD in T5 when I had to replace our healer for a while. And that was with a PLD tank.

Also the 30s block. Most if not every tank buster is MAGICAL and you can't block magical attacks.

And what do you do with big selfheals (the 1200 cure potency+convalescent) if you get one shot due to no dmg reduction CD'S up

As for warrior vs drk. Don't grit give same effect as shield oath? Which means you don't get the same feeling of squishyness on drk as on warrior when you get bigger hits coming in while trashpulls(but yes,you also get healed for more), but for tank busters imo warriors has currently the best arsenal, especially with Holmgang being on a relatively short CD.

[Reynhart]

Most if not every tank buster is MAGICAL and you can't block magical attacks.

Death Sentence isn't
Ravensbeak isn't
Bahamut's Claw isn't
Flatten isn't

So, which one exactly is magical ?

[Donjo]

Death Sentence isn't
Ravensbeak isn't
Bahamut's Claw isn't
Flatten isn't

So, which one exactly is magical ?

Echoed. You've got that reversed, Ani. The majority of Tank Busters - nay, the majority of all enemy attacks which target the player highest in aggro - are physical.

[Ceodore]

Also the 30s block. Most if not every tank buster is MAGICAL and you can't block magical attacks.

T13 Flatten: Melee
T9 Raven's Beak: Melee
T10 Critical Rip: Melee
T9 Dalamud Dive: Melee
T9 Rage of Bahamut (Nael): Melee
Death Sentence: Melee
Plummet (T13 Storm of Meracydia): Melee
T4 Dreadnaught Cleave: Melee
Swipe (T13 Pain of Meraydia): Melee
T1 Hood Swipe: Melee
T7 Tail Whip: Melee
T6 Bloody Caress: Melee


These are just a few of the melee physical tank crunches in the (previously) end game content.

T13 Ahk Morn: Magical
T13 Rage of Bahamut (If improperly handled): Magical
T9 Raven's Accent: Magical

These are the only magical tank crunches I can think of that comes from (previously) difficult end game content. Might want to go rethink your comment, leave it to a career Warrior who hasn't even finished Paladin to level 50 to assume blocking is so useless.

[RiisWolf]

I haven't gotten my DRK past 40 yet, but already I'm not liking it as far as taking on mobs is concerned. They might be a super late bloomer, but I can say for sure from a defensive standpoint that WAR can take on a mob better than DRKs can.

[Alise]

What about DPS stand point? DRK vs WAR. Can anybody tell me how they are ?

I think that most of the 2-tank content doesn't exactly need 2x tank to be both very defensive, sometimes, you would want only temporary tank swap, but DPS for the rest of fights.

Imo, PLD will usually be MT anyway, give the rest for WAR vs DRK to fight for ST position.

[Ditto]

Warrior takes the cake.

You should NEVER be spamming Souleater. Delirum is your high DPS finishing combo, Souleater should only be used if you're really needing that HP, or have Dark Arts for it, which spamming Dark Arts soul eaters is a good way to screw yourself on MP. (Though I guess if you don't care about the small potency difference, no harm in using Soul Eater instead. However there should never be pressure on you to recover your own HP like that if the healers don't need you to.)

War is still the offensive tank really, but they're more defensive than Drk is as well IMO. If you IB, you're reducing your damage taken by that 20%, ontop of your Defiance. Sure you're losing 10% parry, but Warriors and Parry never mixed well. You can inner beast more frequently than we can have Dark Dance on us, that has always been the advantage of Inner Beast over actual defensive buffs. Inner Beast also works on magic, Dark Dance doesn't.

Cant exactly compare Storms Path and Reprisal, as even though they apply similar debuffs, they're entirely different. But if I'm to say, Storms Path is ahead by far. An on use 10% damage debuff vs. a debuff that can only be applied for 20 seconds, every 30 seconds, assuming you are MT, or are at least tanking something physical, and parry.

A hit on a Drk is basically the same as a Pally getting hit, behind his shield. Only difference is, we have nowhere near the mitigation a Paladin has, thus people easily find us to be very squishy, which we are, and is currently a problem, as well as the fact that Drk brings essentially nothing new to the table as a tank. Nothing they currently have as far as I'm aware will make people want one in their raid group over the Paladin, AKA the unmovable object. Or the Warrior, the unstoppable force.

Oh, and as far as Shadow Wall goes, it's disappointing. It's basically a Vengeance without the auto retaliate potency, and a much longer cooldown. The cooldown just does not fit a skill like this at all.

What about DPS stand point? DRK vs WAR. Can anybody tell me how they are ?

I think that most of the 2-tank content doesn't exactly need 2x tank to be both very defensive, sometimes, you would want only temporary tank swap, but DPS for the rest of fights.

Imo, PLD will usually be MT anyway, give the rest for WAR vs DRK to fight for ST position.

Warrior beats Drk by far in terms of DPS (I'm like 90% sure at least). Less so if the Drk doesn't need to be in Grit, because of Blood Weapon, but Warriors are just better at doing damage.

[Violette]

Also, I've seen a lot of groups doing the new extreme primals with war/war or war/pld, with war as the mt. The age of WAR has come.