Bard - they broke my job

[Aiselia]

SE dun goofed, yo. It's indisputable at this point.

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

[justinjarjar]

The numbers do only show that BRD is not the most mained. The numbers between why you dislike your job/did not main are not directly showing that all the people disliked BRD playstyle (since i know anti DRG, BLM, and AST forum posts about playstyle) While I agree there are people that dislike the new playstyle of BRDs, many that main it are over it by now or simply want changes to procs to make it work with WM better. On the case of MCH if this was taken pre-fix then that would explain the large decline of mained MCHs. Overall the numbers do not show a huge correlation between WM and BRDs not being mained. Also as stated if this was pre-fix then the numbers at this point are more towards anti-MCH (as well as many people tryed MCH and found it not there play style nothing to do with the job being bad. I agree that some changes still need to be done to AST, but I think expecting Jobs to be OP instead of UP was a good idea, since buffing is taken better than nerfing.

[Zyrusticae]

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

Your only rebuttal is to reveal your ignorance of how statistical evidence works?

Assuming the game has a population of 5 million subscribers (it doesn't, but for the sake of argument we'll need assumptions), to get a confidence level of 99(+/-3)% only requires a sample size of 1846 players. With the poll with over 11,000 respondents we have a confidence level of 99(+/-1.2)%, which is extremely reliable.

The numbers do only show that BRD is not the most mained. The numbers between why you dislike your job/did not main are not directly showing that all the people disliked BRD playstyle (since i know anti DRG, BLM, and AST forum posts about playstyle) While I agree there are people that dislike the new playstyle of BRDs, many that main it are over it by now or simply want changes to procs to make it work with WM better. On the case of MCH if this was taken pre-fix then that would explain the large decline of mained MCHs. Overall the numbers do not show a huge correlation between WM and BRDs not being mained. Also as stated if this was pre-fix then the numbers at this point are more towards anti-MCH (as well as many people tryed MCH and found it not there play style nothing to do with the job being bad. I agree that some changes still need to be done to AST, but I think expecting Jobs to be OP instead of UP was a good idea, since buffing is taken better than nerfing.

For the record, BRD was the single most popular DPS job pre-Heavensward. Here's a really old poll showing this was the case. Same thing with a more recent poll. Even anecdotal evidence bore this out as you frequently saw all-BRD parties in the DF pre-Heavensward, especially in the CT dungeons (good luck if you wanted Bard drops!).

People switched. Tons of bards just quit playing the job.

[justinjarjar]

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Bards being the number one main had to deal with the nerfs way before HW. The numbers of the poll you showed before showed less people wanting to main them before HW anyways. We also poll for president and it has shown that it is only good with multiple polls that target different demigraphs. A good poll would be 1000+ bards month before/month after HW, poll of 1000+ Bards post-fix as well. You also need better worded questions (since many of the questions are not well worded or leading) as well as break downs on the more varied polls. We can argue more about math and proper polling if you want, but I am not sure how many classes and polls you have done at a collegiate level, but I have a lot under my belt at this point.

Now past that the number you showed shows 20% difference which is barley significant (not to mention that the population of the poll is not large enough to create significant results). So lets say 10% to save time on math if we take in account active players, that is not significant change to warren that Bard is dead because of WM.

And in no way am I saying that there is some displeasure in the clunkyness of WM or the lost procs, only that WM has not made the class not played, other factors would have to be put into account.

[Aiselia]

Your only rebuttal is to reveal your ignorance of how statistical evidence works?

Statistical evidence isn't irrefutable, though.

Let's say there's 5 million people playing the game.

11,000 voted in the poll. 4,989,000 didn't. That's a lot of people to ignore because your poll of significantly limited scope says one thing.

The only irrefutable evidence would be something official from SE stating what people have been playing.

[PopeHat]

Anecdotally, I know more BRD/MCH that have switched than not. Personally I would rather be playing ninja, but my static will need a bard for progression. If I was looking for a new group, I would not choose BRD to be my main. With the job numbers from the poll and the recent updates specifying BRD and MCH as explicit support roles, there will be more and more saltiness where there are more support classes than groups willing to take them in. The "support" role is the only role that people will only like one of, you can have two tanks, two healers, three to four dps and one support.

[justinjarjar]

Statistical evidence isn't irrefutable, though.

Let's say there's 5 million people playing the game.

11,000 voted in the poll. 4,989,000 didn't. That's a lot of people to ignore because your poll of significantly limited scope says one thing.

The only irrefutable evidence would be something official from SE stating what people have been playing.

It does not actually work that way, having everyone vote would be too slow and the poll would have different results before the poll ended not to mention the lack of participation. You need enough numbers to show a good subset of the population then you equate for % +/-. That is the proven best way to have a legitimate poll with real numbers.

[Greywolfamakir]

Hi !

A lot of Bards from 2.X are playing other jobs, like DRG, MNK, BLM, NIN or SMN because WM is not what they expected, but I dont know people playing BRD like new main job to be honest, I mean, a lot of "old" BRDs are rerolling to other Job, but there are not a lot poeple starting HS like BRD or MCH mainly. This is not a fact, it's what I see.

[Argentt]

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

That detailed poll was conducted on Reddit so it's biased toward their population. I'd argue that the population there are going to be more informed and less casual as a whole than the population of the game in general. I'd also say that casual players are even more likely to quit bard due to the increased difficulty of playing the class.

[justinjarjar]

That detailed poll was conducted on Reddit so it's biased toward their population. I'd argue that the population there are going to be more informed and less casual as a whole than the population of the game in general. I'd also say that casual players are even more likely to quit bard due to the increased difficulty of playing the class.

IDK about reddit being the best subset of players still. The poll itself however does not show a significant change and for the most part is pretty useless as a tool. As well as casuals are a good chunk of the population and do have a say in the matter (that is like saying poor people should not have a say in government because they contribute less to government overall).

This is fun teaching people about poll math and ethics . Thanks guys for the interesting view points.