Bard - they broke my job

[MercureXI]

snip

2.0 style is less dps, that's for sure, but still solid dps if you are among the only dps that can actually dps from that range, evading shit at the same time.

Having huge dps + 100% uptime and full mobility would make you rockstars again, like in 2.0. Along with half the server playing BRD because of the "easy dps" style (I remember early Garuda EX being "no melee, BRD yes please").

If the job gains dps to catch with melee jobs, BRD needs either positioning bonus / malus (I can live with that) or movement restriction like mages do have, and SE chose that.

Why BRD should be free of all "problems" that DPS should face during a fight (100% uptime VS melee being out of range, no positioning, and being able to move without altering dps) ?

[MercureXI]

That's funny, learning to read would have helped that too. S/he clearly talks about the oGCD and timing them inbetween shots.

Just meaning it's both our problem it seems I'm tired, I won't lie. You must be too I guess.

[Arrik]

snip

2.0 style is less dps, that's for sure, but still solid dps if you are among the only dps that can actually dps from that range, evading shit at the same time.

Having huge dps + 100% uptime and full mobility would make you rockstars again, like in 2.0. Along with half the server playing BRD because of the "easy dps" style (I remember early Garuda EX being "no melee, BRD yes please").

If the job gains dps to catch with melee jobs, BRD needs either positioning bonus / malus (I can live with that) or movement restriction like mages do have, and SE chose that.

Why BRD should be free of all "problems" that DPS should face during a fight (100% uptime VS melee being out of range, no positoning, can move without altering dps) ?

3.0 Mechanics are not all the same as 2.0 Mechanics. Not everything is melee range only. And I've never stated I want to move without altering my dps. What I said was "as a dps, doing damage the way as a caster, I should do around the damage of one" that means fulltiming WM, and standing still. WM buff today proved 2.0 is not what they want, and will be more and more of a dps loss (which I personally am ok with). I don't think my WD should scale like crap, I don't think my support capabilities should double dip into my already low dps (which could either be fixed by raising my base dps or by removing the penalty attached to them, idc), and I don't want to parse like a melee, just the caster I'm "pretending" to be w/ WM on. I've also said this is if I remain a DPS. If they don't feel like treating me as a DPS, they need to move the jobs to a role more suited.

[MercureXI]

And so ... since it's the root of the pb here, you parsed for how much today ? Compared to 3.0 ?

[Arrik]

And so ... since it's the root of the pb here, you parsed for how much today ? Compared to 3.0 ?

It's not though, it's SE's mindset when it comes to the ranged physical dps's place in the trinity, and it cascades down into their decisions revolving it. A parse only shows the result of said mindset. WM did nothing more than exacerbate the issue we've had coming for a long time. All I really want is for them to treat Bard and MCH as DPS first if they remain in that role, or if he is hell bent on making them Support there needs to be a role for it. My wall of text pages back explains this in more detail and exaggeration (they aren't gonna pull BRD off archer and make it a healer).


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ng_japan_expo/

Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles.

Yoshi-P stuck what he considers support into a DPS role, even though he thinks it's a different role. And then wonders why issues erupt when more then one of them is present in DF, something the other DPS have no issue with. He mentions two melee, but BLM and like are still more DPS.

Just meaning it's both our problem it seems I'm tired, I won't lie. You must be too I guess.

Yeah I am, going to bed soonish. This very well may be the last reply tonight. My posts are getting more "abstract" in spelling and grammar already...

[MercureXI]

But gaining a dps stance to boost dps isn't treating BRD as DPS first ?

BRD was already about 900 dps on a dummy during 3.0, and 3.01 is an overall dps gain (5% or more)

I think BRD seems "ok" around 1000 dps, though it requires more skill, that's for sure, and more planning than the good ol' "Legolas style" BRD.

Dummy parse isn't the best way to evaluate BRD's state, but it's reliable to compare max output VS other jobs.

Most fights tend to be more about "experience of when use CDs and how to get maximum uptime", it's normal for now that BRD parse lower than other DPS on real fights parses, since they have a new playstyle to get used to.

Give it a few weeks, and we can reliably see if BRD is that bad of a DPS, I'm pretty sure it will improve over time.

Have a good night.

[lugiaXD]

i said much earlier and i see it was restated a few times but the problem isn't the dps at all it's the playstyle.
and before you jump down my throat about that being super easy you've also got to remember that we don't want to be the best dps we would be ok with doing the current dps we do if it didn't mean that we had to play a playstyle that sucks or we don't like.

i personally think if they wanted us to seriously be dps they need to remove our support aspects in order to do that dps. for that reason i posted a few pages back that WM should not allow you to play other songs, only give you a 15% dps boost with auto attacks allowed and not get buffed from BV, they should keep all the skills they have currently locked behind WM the same for the purpose of balance but also give us back old barrage when we aren't in it so that when we do go support and take the 15% penalty to our damage we don't feel it as bad.

as i said before when i gave a summary of what exactly i was talking about
Wanderer's Minuet: 3 second cast time
Increases overall damage by 15%, cannot be played with other songs and is unaffected by Battle Voice. effects end upon reuse
Additional effects: Barrage now causes a single target non-critical weapon skill to hit 3 times. can only be applied for one attack.


and to the guy who said we had a simple playstyle, i can tell you right now the "complex" playstyle they gave me with those god forsaken cast times and my latency make it a hell of a lot harder to optimize my dps while still supporting the party because i'm now looking more at my hotbar to make sure one of my 11 oGCDs has gone off correctly and not eaten into my GCD and watching for mechanics to actually pay attention to the mana of my healers.

Just to reiterate a point if the melee are doing 1.3k dps and the casters are doing 1250 dps i want us to be doing 1.2k while in that stance.
i'm not looking to be top dps i just want to have enough to where if another bard or MCH gets in the party one of us isn't kicked (Which btw @"all the people saying we're whining for no reason" is actually happening to a lot of people)
one of my FC mates got instakicked from a party where he was bard and got in with another bard and they literally said "BRD dps sucks" and kicked him.

[kalasnikov]

How is the Japanese Community reacting to the 3.01 by the way? Also i believe this 3.01 change was just a small tweak and experiment. Didn't Yoshida claim that more drastic changes would happen after savage release, so there is still hope with this many complaining.

[Kaith]

and to the guy who said we had a simple playstyle, i can tell you right now the "complex" playstyle they gave me with those god forsaken cast times and my latency make it a hell of a lot harder to optimize my dps while still supporting the party because i'm now looking more at my hotbar to make sure one of my 11 oGCDs has gone off correctly and not eaten into my GCD and watching for mechanics to actually pay attention to the mana of my healers.

I'd honestly argue that we went from being the easiest DPS to play to being the hardest because of how many oGCDs we have to juggle.

Or rather I should say play to our max potential. Obviously you can make it easier to play by using WM as little as possible which will result in significantly lower DPS

[LLamaPie]

Ok going to give my impressions since the update. Going to be honest and list the positives and negatives.

The changes to WM:
+1: The instant cast makes the song actually useable.
-1: The 15s recast forces you to stay in the song for 15s which still, unfortunately, limits the potential of the song. Not many fights will allow you 15s of no movement.
+1: 30% damage buff as opposed to 20%. This makes up for the lack of AA, for the most part. Still would have preferred them just put the AA back in and revert Barage back to pre 3.0 days.

Overall +1 to the changes with WM. A step in the right direction, but I believe it still needs work. I would prefer the song drain mana than to force cast times. I would rather as a bard manage my mana than have to worry if it's a good time to go Bow Mage. IE: "Do I need to balad soon?" -- "Would it be better DPS for the group to queue up Foe's Requiem?" --- "Do I need to Paeon soon?"