Bard - they broke my job

[ruskie]

/ac "Wanderer's Minuet" <me> <wait.1>
/ac "Empyreal Arrow" <t> <wait.15>
/ac "Wanderer's Minute" <me>

There nothing much there to do really. But iron jaws is also gated behind it.

[Judge_Xero]

I stopped switching in neverrreap ages ago(though first few times I usually turned it off after 50% mark) and never did it in a3 at all. Plenty of time for all.

At a certain threshold of Crit and Skill Speed, swapping out of WM is a DPS loss anyways. Between River of Blood procs and the reduced GCD altering the AA to WS ratio there is just no way to fit in AA damage in such a small window (6 seconds to possibly get 2 AA attacks in, FML). (Not to mention that Skill Speed reduces the CD on Empyreal Arrow, further reducing that window)

While I do agree that BRD is completely changed with the WM mechanic, I think it's cool the way they made a class that is so dynamically altered by varying values of the SS stat. Bard for me is one of the most interesting new job updates.

[giantslayer]

I wonder, does devs really read all this complains, ideas and suggestions or we just talk about how they break Bard, but in the end nothings going to change. Like, is it even possible to reverse Bard back to pre-hw state, with different approach?

Problem is they would lose a lot of face by just going and changing it back. It is much worse worse for someone coming from a Japanese cultural background than an American.

An interesting idea I just thought about would be to change Wanderer's Minuet such that you still have to stand still for however many seconds for your abilities to go off but you can use off-globals while waiting/casting. There would probably need to be some adjustments to ensure this doesn't make bard OP, but it would restore the old style and balance of gameplay, while still enacting the tradeoff of mobility for DPS.

[RiceisNice]

Problem is they would lose a lot of face by just going and changing it back. It is much worse worse for someone coming from a Japanese cultural background than an American.

An interesting idea I just thought about would be to change Wanderer's Minuet such that you still have to stand still for however many seconds for your abilities to go off but you can use off-globals while waiting/casting. There would probably need to be some adjustments to ensure this doesn't make bard OP, but it would restore the old style and balance of gameplay, while still enacting the tradeoff of mobility for DPS.

They should've forecasted this from the start. Not only did they give two job of the same dps breakdown (physical ranged) a skill that has the exact, same functionality, they also didn't consider the fact that BRD's auto attack was roughly around 20-25% of their overall dps, and expected WM to amount to a damage decrease when it boosts damage by 20% while removing autos. On the MCH side, I felt they didn't bring up to the expectations of having "various attachments" and introducing the use of ammo to boost their skills. They also could've made GB and WM work differently from each other as far as what they increased; One could increase attack speed while reducing TP cost.

One trend I keep noticing with SE is that they fail at doing this when it comes to future balancing. DRG had pitiful magic defenses? They make a raid content where its huge emphasis on magic damage to the point that their survivability became a liability.

[rappa]

Our AA was 20-24% our damage, now we have 30% from WM.

We lose AA but we get more damage during multidotting, more rain of death procs with zero tp cost.

I don't think Bard will reverse before WM. The bard atm is fine. Do a good dps, still have the support abilities and can avoid aoe without losing dps or a few less than others jobs as Black mage.

Bards have a learning curve once you get WM and Iron Jaws that you need to take. Practice in all kind of combat. Instead of blame SE for changes, grab your bard, search one dummy and test, shoot, move and shoot again. All of this, require time and practice, but it's better play like 2 year ago than learn others playstyles.

[kalasnikov]

Always these anti bards or bad bards tossing nonsense. Bards will still loose dps from aoes. Even with the 1.5 second cast, if aoe comes after you finish the cast/before you can cast again, you have to move and delay next gcd or turn off minuet. worst moment for that kind of situation is when you are about to refresh dots with iron jaws. also bard damage is notably more delayed due the animation and cast times compared to other jobs (already casting next ability when the last cast finally lands).
I am not expecting cast times to go away, but we can expect ease and improvements to the abilities/cast times, maybe even pray for higher movement chance or even 1 free gcd without casting. There is nothing new to learn with cast times, those who see casts as increased skill requirement, i dont think they can even play the job properly. so all these alexander normal "bards" or black mages seeing bard as under job can shove their complains and whines somewhere else. Bard needs fixing.

Fyi i am not a bard. I am a salty bowmage

[relasine]

As someone who started playing BRD after 3.0, I have to say that Wanderer's Minuet isn't what turned me off; it was the lack of ways to increase mobility while under its effect. MCH, with its higher chance to proc Slug Shot/Clean Shot and Rapid Reload for forcing a proc once every 15 seconds, feels like it just has more tools to reduce downtime during barrage/telegraph phases while BRD feels like it's completely at the mercy of seldom Straight Shot procs.

It's a QoL issue to me.

[Dzique]

To me problem starts with how they introduced Bard in 2.0. How they said i'ts an quick and agile supportive class, but with lesser damage in comparison to other dps classes. So when someone picked Bard for i'ts main, it was because of his supportive side and swiftness in battle. Now to me it's illogical to just boost our damage and slowing class overall, rather than taking into consideration previous Bard perks.
And here comes the next problem. There is no real support in this game. SE looking at Bard, must think that only thing they can do is to increase it's damage. No sense in adding more songs and supportive aspects when Bard is a dps. So it needs more damage to meet criteria in new raids and dungeons. Hopless never-ending circle of dps checks.

[Asheilin]

I got my bard to 60 (ding and that was it) then switched to a different class because WM breaks my fave class. Bard was defined as highly moble, low damage, support. It was the perfect class to learn ANY content on. Being good though required skill because their damage sucked. When the first hint of WM came around, I figured it was a SONG (ya know, draings mp?) that increased damage for the bard. They said you could cast it and another at the same time. Therefore you'd only get 1/2 the Song uptime if you kept WM up for yourself and Foe's. This made sense; dock your support ability and GAIN DAMAGE. Get 52, oh gods no.
That above, could be cool. Personally for Eymperon Arrow and Iron Jaws, though, I think they should just HAVE their cast time but not be gated. That would make more sense to me. Your best new skills? Yeah, you have to stand still for them; WM up? Even better, they do more damage.

[AkashiXI]

Moving away from the WM argument, how do you guys feel Bard has been scaling with gear? I've been a little disappointed overall with how little the return has been for DEX. I'm now i205, still 200 weapon, and I average between 1220-1250 with no food, no pot, party bonus. My monk friend has seen substantial boosts in his dps (he's now riding close to 1,450 on average at 203), and I feel the gap should be closer. I know I'm not counting disembowl, but I shouldn't have to. What are other Machinists, Bards doing around 205 with no buffs outside party?

Edit: on the topic of WM, I still only have a few complaints. The biggest would be straighter procs happening after using another GCD, preventing me from immediately using it or, even worse, using a straight only to use a straighter right after. I'm already running into TP issues with the amount of skill speed we aquire, so this furthers my quality of life annoyance. I've already talked about this subject though, I'm just hoping SE will take notice and help us out. :]