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  1. #701
    Player
    Cascadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Drowned Wednesday
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by pandabearcat View Post
    How did you model your turret damage? Are you sure the DRG formulas actually work for MCH?

    Your turret potency seems to be 80 (using a WD potency set) set to your autoattack delay. Is this accurate?

    EDIT: also looking over your sim code some more, I have some questions.

    1. You seem to loop every 0.1 sec instead of by event timer. How does this impact AA delay etc with <0.1 differences?
    2. How are you modeling the animation delay? I couldn't tell where that was. Are you using the same delay for every skill? Is this accurate?
    3. I can't tell what c_gcd and o_gcd are.
    4. Are you fairly certain of the way different buffs stack? This isn't questioning it, I am curious because this is important for putting it into my sim.
    5. How are you handling dot snapshots?


    Hi, I have been busy for the last week doing some moving, I should clarify that I wrote the simulator to see how different openers affected the overall DPS and how much of an impact Wildfire made on our overall damage, as well as things like using Reload when it's up, or lining it up with buffs, lining up Hypercharge with buffs or using it whenever it's up, etc. So it is very rough, I can improve it if you need it to model.

    Turret: I didn't get the chance to test it, the turret was set to WD because just from playing it seemed like the turret hit around the same time as my auto attacks.
    I used the formula for a regular potency skill like Split Shot for the turret damage.

    1. I set the loop timer to 0.1 seconds, it should really be 0.01 seconds but python takes too long to run 10000+ simulations for a long period of time and I didn't want to spend 10 minutes waiting for it to run 10000x times.
    2. I was just using 1 second as the animation delay, as in game 1 second accounting for latency was roughly the time to get off a buff in between GCDs.
    3. c_gcd is the gcd, o_gcd was there to keep track of popping buffs.
    4. When I read up on previous forum posts about how different buffs stacked, they mentioned it was multiplicative, so I just assumed it so.
    5. DoT snapshots are handled by setting the potency tick with whatever buffs were active, and letting it run for 30 seconds, ticking every 3 seconds. The potency is calculated with skillspeed in mind.

    As to how accurate the Dragoon formulas are; the auto attack potency seems to be different, the Dragoon formula gave me really high auto attacks compared to my in game auto attacks. The potency formula however seems to be roughly accurate; I didn't include the +/- 5% variance in damage but over 1000 weaponskills and turret damage logging through ACT, the calculated damage was close to the damage in game.
    (1)
    Last edited by Cascadi; 07-15-2015 at 03:18 PM.

  2. #702
    Player
    arctic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Excel Kobayashi
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosifer View Post
    Snip
    Blood for Blood - Increases damage dealt by 10% and damage suffered by 25% for 20s.
    Hawk's Eye -Increases Dexterity by 15% and guarantees that all attacks land.

    With an emphatic yes, not having these skills will hurt your over all performance.
    (1)
    Glory to Mankind

  3. #703
    Player
    Cascadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Drowned Wednesday
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosifer View Post
    First, A huge thanks for this thread. Been reading for awhile and it's been incredibly helpful.

    So I'm one of the people that can't seem to produce the damage numbers that many machinists are getting, therefore...looking for some advice. I'm currently i181 with a Kai weapon and average somewhere between 820 and 860 on a dummy doing what I believe is textbook rotation. Granted, I might occasionally misuse a Quick Reload for something other than split shot or slug shot, but other than that I feel I'm hitting the marks like I should be. Based on the discussion here, this seems low for my gear level.

    Before I embarrass myself with math, I should first ask this..would not having Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye explain my subpar numbers to the degree I'm seeing? Would knocking out those cross class abilities help me significantly, or should I troubleshoot my rotation first?

    Thanks a ton in advance gang.

    Nos
    Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye would probably explain the subpar numbers. Get those and your damage should improve a lot, as a lot of damage comes from burst.
    (1)

  4. #704
    Player
    arctic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Excel Kobayashi
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cascadi View Post
    snip.
    Welcome back!
    (0)
    Glory to Mankind

  5. #705
    Player
    Ryaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Mist Ward 21, Plot 45
    Posts
    1,845
    Character
    Ryaz Darksbane
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by arctic View Post
    Blood for Blood - Increases damage dealt by 10% and damage suffered by 25% for 20s.
    Hawk's Eye -Increases Dexterity by 15% and guarantees that all attacks land.

    With an emphatic yes, not having these skills will hurt your over all performance.
    Agreed. Thankfully, I had a DRG already leveled, so I just had to level an Archer to 26 to get Hawk's Eye. Even that was somewhat painful, so I feel for anyone who has to go back and level things pretty high for a cross-class ability.
    (0)

  6. #706
    Player
    Hurk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    12
    Character
    Raimund Blackthorne
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 50
    Hello, everyone! First let me say what a wonderful thread this is. I'm just starting out with MCH as my first ranged DPS/Support, and I have to say that I'm thoroughly enjoying the class. As someone who mains a WAR, I have to say that MCH is a fairly enjoyable change of pace, adjusting for no longer getting insta-queues. However, I do have a few questions that I hope someone can answer, and please excuse if they sound particularly newb-ish, I'm still getting the hang of the class, even at level 47. These questions are mostly for leveling purposes (so mostly field and dungeons), and don't really pertain to raid content, as of yet.

    1. Looking over my skills, I seem to notice that Slug and Clean Shot have the same base potency of 100, whereas Split has a potency of 140. Is it that much better to use Split Shot for the 140 potency instead of just using Slug and Clean Shot? It feels like I run out of TP too quickly even with my turret up, so would just using Slug -> Clean procs be better for base leveling content?

    2. Head Graze. I'm having a bit of difficulty with differentiating the Magic-based attacks over the monster skills, what's a good way to know what can be silenced and what can't, so I know that I'm not wasting my skill on an attack that won't be interrupted?

    Thank you for any answers and information that might be given to me, it's greatly appreciated!
    (0)

  7. #707
    Player
    VitalSuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    402
    Character
    Tarra Netsky
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurk View Post
    1. Looking over my skills, I seem to notice that Slug and Clean Shot have the same base potency of 100, whereas Split has a potency of 140. Is it that much better to use Split Shot for the 140 potency instead of just using Slug and Clean Shot? It feels like I run out of TP too quickly even with my turret up, so would just using Slug -> Clean procs be better for base leveling content?

    2. Head Graze. I'm having a bit of difficulty with differentiating the Magic-based attacks over the monster skills, what's a good way to know what can be silenced and what can't, so I know that I'm not wasting my skill on an attack that won't be interrupted?
    1. Why would you use a lower potency attack to chain into a slightly higher potency attack when spamming split is just flat out better? Sure the tp is 10 higher but 140 into 180 > 100 into 200. And 140 multiple times is much much better than 100 multiple times.

    2. Don't worry about silencing anything, just use it for the dps unless you know for a fact that no one else can silence and it's up to you and even then that's very rare. Only a few enemies I can think of and they're both in WoD.

    Also I never played Archer at all so leveling it to get up to quelling strikes is painful. This is like when I had to trudge my way through THM to get swiftcast for my healers.
    (0)
    Last edited by VitalSuit; 07-15-2015 at 06:32 PM.

  8. 07-15-2015 11:51 PM

  9. #708
    Player
    Haxetc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    111
    Character
    Eastcoast Ping
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    I know I posted about it before but I'll be putting out a guide that will be done by Saturday. It'll go over almost everything. If you have questions that you'd like answered in the guide you can add me on Guildwork.com @ http://guildwork.com/users/haxetc and send me a PM. I want to try and cover all questions the community has. Also, if you watch it and have feedback on things that could be done different/better let me know. I'm open to any criticism, I promise.
    (2)

  10. #709
    Player

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    389
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cevo2mwB81o

    random opener video

    getting clean shot with dex pot and then quick reloading after that is probably better if you don't have feywind to get the clean shot to apply with dex pot, dunno though
    (0)
    Last edited by Aiurily; 07-16-2015 at 05:33 AM.

  11. #710
    Player
    Shykrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Quip Rohlain
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxetc View Post
    I know I posted about it before but I'll be putting out a guide that will be done by Saturday. It'll go over almost everything. If you have questions that you'd like answered in the guide you can add me on Guildwork.com @ http://guildwork.com/users/haxetc and send me a PM. I want to try and cover all questions the community has. Also, if you watch it and have feedback on things that could be done different/better let me know. I'm open to any criticism, I promise.
    Seems I can't view unless we're friends. Sad face.
    (0)

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