New Bard feedback

[Lillia]

xDDD So we got 5 new abilities so we can use them on the openers and then forget about them. Working as intended.

Uh three, You get three new skills to use under WM effect which is a new skill itself. Refresh your DoT's with a bit more DMG being done over time under wanderer's then go back to your normal happy go lucky auto attack dps and running which matters oh so much self with usual rotation. < Working as intended

You can weave in the wanderer's sometimes if you find the time to refresh DoT's with Iron Jaws and use stuff like Sidewinder and EA but it's just not worth having on for a long period of time. (I personally will attempt to find a way to do this with a dummy when I have all of the new skills myself.)

Warden's isn't used for openers it's used to help dodge nasty and annoying AoE debuffs for the whole party.

[Rose-Wild]

You are beyond salvation it's a complete waste of time trying to discuss anything with you. You keep missing all the points and think it's fine to have a stance that doesn't really buff our damage for any real fight like primals or raids and the fact that Barrage got changed for something worst than what we had before. If you can't value dps while moving it's probably because you never had any major role in coil where you had to kite enemies or deal with mechanics to help your team. I can't belive someone can be so blind after playing almost 2 years this mmo and probably the job too.

Auto attacks were a HUGE part of our dps and WM doesn't cover it and doesn't cover the times you have to move in "hard" fights. You can live in your dream with your 3k opener thinking your dps got better thanks to it but the reality is that we got changed in to caster job that has burst for a short period of time and that's all. Blm could already do that and better.

And if we had good movement it's because we had lower dps. Now we don't have the movement and the dps it's still low.

[Mikedizzy]

I have some very rough numbers that could help shed some light on this discussion.
I have done some rough math and have notice that my unbuffed auto attacks did around 200 and something per tick so for a minute that is about 4k in damage in auto attacks.
Now while under WM we can hit EA 4 times and that usually hits for 850= 3,400 then we can use Sidewinder once per minute= not sure what that is going to do yet but going to be well over 1k so that is a dps increase right there and it is unbuffed. With the buffed versions of the opener and such I think we are still going to see a dps increase and if bards are good at using the cast timer you can pre-dodge just like any other job early (takes practice to get it down...Git Gud)
When we get the fully buff opener and hit the Sidewinder we are going to be fine.

[Lillia]

snip

Lol, We're not a full blown ranged DPS like a BLM anyways so I'd hope they could do that and more? We're utility, a BLM will always do better with or without this stance and unlike them we can remove the cast times when we are done then go back to doing what we normally do while weaving in the new abilities with wanderers only when needed after that.

I have done Coil by the way, thanks. I've done Coil turns un-nerfed before on bard and have experience up to T11 (which I have gained some experience in) in which my static fell apart due to me having personal rl matters going on and them not being able to grab a replacement bard.

So I know the requirements of a bard having to move, aka Remmy kiting (T7) and Brainjack grabbings (T8), but why would you even use wanderer's if you're going to do something similar to what Renaud kitting was in T7? It'd be bad choices made on your part when you could just stick with normal rotations unless you're willing to practice in taking note of some monster's HP % and the battle timings on bard, which I'd commend you in doing. For something like T8 I eventually just had it built into me to react at some point or another so I eventually learned the times when I was and wasn't able to sing or do something that would hinder my movement. :x

But honestly if you can't afford to take off a song like you would always do when you sing ballad or armys anyways (If you sing it) then I kindly say please re-think your current playstyle on the job. (Foe's is an exception.)


@Mikedizzy Sidewinder is basically this; "Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Can only be executed while under the effect of the Wanderer's Minuet. Additional Effect: If the target is suffering from a Venomous Bite or Windbite effect inflicted by you, Sidewinder's potency is increased to 250 for one effect, or 350 for both."

[Crazypluto]

Lol, We're not a full blown ranged DPS like a BLM anyways so keep dreaming? We're Utility, a BLM will always do better with or without this stance.

I have done Coil by the way, thanks. I've done Coil turns un-nerfed before on bard and have experience up to T11 (which I have gained some experience in) in which my static fell apart due to me having personal rl matters going on and them not being able to grab a replacement bard.

But honestly if you can't afford to take off a song like you always do when you sing ballad or armys anyways (If you sing it) then I kindly say please re-think your current playstyle on the job.

I wish they would add a "Utility" Spot in duty finder then because I'm sick of 90min "DPS" Q's.

[Lillia]

I wish they would add a "Utility" Spot in duty finder then because I'm sick of 90min for "DPS" Q's.

Lol, maybe take off our songs, increase our dmg and finally change our name from bard. Then we can finally have a ranger in the game and the world will make sense again! (Joking! nothing offensively directed towards you.)

But no, I think we have DPS because we do attack and dps just.. not as high as other jobs due to our playstyle being what is really utility. We're meant to support and dps, we support at a cost normally with foes and warden's being exceptions however warden's is a situational song.

[Rose-Wild]

Exp t11 xD And again you miss the point. The damage of the Song is ment to make our DPS WAY better and it doesn't. I really don't know what's so hard to understand.
You are trying to explain to people who are Bard lv60 how the skills work when we already had time to test them. Also by the way Sidewinder tool tip is wrong and doesn't need Minuet.

[Lillia]

snip.

You know, after testing it out more at 60... I gotta woman up and say I was wrong, dmg from WM does seem rather small when you add up on everything else out of it. I still think you came out in an awful and mocking manner over it all but I gotta agree that WM could probably use some fixing in it though some of my thoughts haven't changed.

I still don't believe we need certain things if we get a fix on the problem and clunkiness of it and stick with the fact that we'll probably be better off swapping in and out of it.... but.... it's definitely lower dmg than expected.

[Snugglebutt]

I have some very rough numbers that could help shed some light on this discussion.
I have done some rough math and have notice that my unbuffed auto attacks did around 200 and something per tick so for a minute that is about 4k in damage in auto attacks.
Now while under WM we can hit EA 4 times and that usually hits for 850= 3,400 then we can use Sidewinder once per minute= not sure what that is going to do yet but going to be well over 1k so that is a dps increase right there and it is unbuffed. With the buffed versions of the opener and such I think we are still going to see a dps increase and if bards are good at using the cast timer you can pre-dodge just like any other job early.

You do not need WM on to use Sidewinder, do not add that to WM yet not non-WM. The tooltip for skill is inaccurate. I can use Sidewinder just fine without WM turned on despite what the tooltip says so if your adding SW to WM then add its use also for non-WM because it works without it on for the time being. Your essentially using flawed maths by excluding it from one side while adding on the other given works whether WM on or off.

SE need to remove the auto attack restriction on WM as the loss of auto attacks along side the cast times plus cancelling of skills if move while WM on while using them offsets any real benefit of the skill including in no small way offsetting the 20% buff it is supposed to provide. I have no problem having to use cast timers on WM, I have no issue in the cancelling of skills when move while active but to remove auto attacks as well has made it almost worthless. For me remove auto attack restriction on skill and I think would be fine. The DPS increase will actually be worthwhile while not being overpowered and at the same time you still have the loss of mobility while using skills affected by WM and their cast times which should be enough on it's own.

[Warlyx]

Yoshi talked about giving bards a option to do more dmg , because they felt that brd were a little behind , since Brd could move and dps they decided than forcing brd to cast was the right trade off , and thats what WM is supposed to do trade movility for DMG........but isnt the case and WM doesnt bring Bard where it should be (ranged dps) , smn and blm do way more , hell even tanks (drk/war).... is just sad.

It will be fixed? yeah eventually (see WAR and DRG in 2.0-2.5)