Holy and Flare diminishing returns nerf

[Corfish]

Sure it was the only really fun spell for black mage

I've seen more than one BLM say this, and I can't wrap my mind around someone playing a job that literally only has one ability they love. Maybe it's a good thing this will anger some of them enough to try other classes/jobs, they may find one they actually like.

[AsahinaMyLove]

Finaly a step against those really annoying and fun-killing "Speed" runs!
I really hate them! D: <
People who had me in a -->random DF party<-- know I never Supported those kind of "runs"! >_>

[Antonius2004]

I don't know what people are whinging about, I never use flare and still manage to top dps within WoD/trials/coil... As for Whm I have used holy to dd mobs and such, but I honestly think it needs this nerf, it becomes sad when a healer can out-dps the dd's...

[Allyrion]

I've seen more than one BLM say this, and I can't wrap my mind around someone playing a job that literally only has one ability they love. Maybe it's a good thing this will anger some of them enough to try other classes/jobs, they may find one they actually like.

It's mostly because BLM only uses a few hard hitting spells. So each one means a lot more.
But Flare dwarves the rest is shear visuals and then being a super aoe nuke as well. It's one of those things that exemplifies what it means it be a BLM.
Though it'll get nerfed, it's still a really strong. It's place in the rotation should stay about the same.
Just a big less dramatic when the mobs don't melt away.

On the other hand, those that played for Flare will be getting Fire IV.
Single target nuke that even looks like Flare, and it'll be used rotationally.
So they should be fine.

I also think saying stuff like that was precisely because everyone knows Flare is OP.
Maybe they'll appreciate the rest more now.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The nerfs are not as bad as some people are taking them to be. It is only a 25% decrease in damage to a group of 6 targets (Flare is 1170 potency total instead of 1560).

[Anty]

They are legit.

SE apparently real unhappy with speed pulls from Mages.

yeah and instead of fixing how dungeons work in general and how boring it is to do the same, trash - boss - trash boss mechanic, they nerv...
The problem is the content not the jobs or the AOE. Also the need to run the same stuff all over again in expert or whatever roulettes etc. is encouraging this.
i still dont know why they didnt change that approach and instead just give us some more sneaky parts to maybe avoid mobs as well? that is def. more fun then just to kill all...
they also should involve more options questwise into dungeons, (ofc that only makes sense if a dungeon has more then 1 route and many sideways and extra rooms...

[Virin]

Can someone who knows the f2 buff difference calc out what say 3 f2 casts increse in potency is now in HW? Which keep in mind does not decrease over #mobs. I have this odd feeling in the back of my brain that the change in potency will actually even out. I have a feeling that in large groups f2 will be more effective with flare becoming a finisher best used with 3 to 4 left in a group of say 6.

[tjw]

-snip-

Alright Miss Negative Nancy. I went and bothered to get some hard theoretical numbers for you just to show just how far you're over-reacting and taking this circus show.

UNLIKELY SCENARIO WITH WHM PURE DPSING FOR 8 GCDS (ROUGHLY 25 SECONDS)

Let's use a most extreme form of trash pull that I have NOT seen in many dungeons save for a few. 3 sets of mobs strung together; let's place this at a total of 9 enemies.

Let's also use the HIGHLY unlikely scenario of a WHM not needing to heal between Holying, and also the UNLIKELY SCENARIO that a WHM can string together 8 GCDs worth of DPS without needing to heal or attend to other responsibilities.

Assumptions include the first Holy being swift-casted as well as Presence of Mind used after the first Holy.

PATCH 2.5

With the old rotation of just Holy Holy Holy spam, we're looking at 200 potency a Holy on each enemy, making each GCD 1800 potency worth. That means in 8 GCDs of nothing but Holy, that equates to 14400 total potency of damage dealt.


PATCH 3.0

Let us assume a new rotation for AoE as follows.

• Aero III
• Swiftcast Holy
• Holy
• Holy
• Holy
• Holy
• Holy
• Holy
• Assize

With the new abilities and Holy adjustments, any WHM worth their salt will put up Aero III first to ensure maximum uptime of the DoT on all 9 enemies. That means the first GCD is a 50 potency nuke, on 9 enemies; 450 potency on the 1st GCD.

2nd GCD is Swiftcast Holy, and the next 6 GCDs also Holy. Against 9 enemies, Holy will now do a total potency of 1200 per GCD. Total potency of Holy over the 7 GCDs; 8400 potency.

You're going to assume the spell speed buff is minimalist. I'm going to assume it's going to have some large impact considering they've been tooting about the spell/skill speed changes for a VERY long time. So I'm going to assume that every GCD, Aero III DoT will do 40 potency on each enemy, meaning each GCD after the 1st it'll do 360 potency. 7 GCDs of DoTs, the DoT damage will be 2520 potency.

And let's also not forget Assize. Slot it in after the Swiftcast Holy, or after all 8 GCDs, it doesn't matter. That's 300 potency per enemy, meaning a total of 2700 potency.

Let's add it up. 450 (Aero III Nuke) + 8400 (Holy Spam) + 2520 (Aero III DoT) + 2700 (Assize) = total potency of 14070.

14400 vs 14070 potency. Omfg, WHM now does 330 less potency in the unlikely scenario of 9 mobs over 8 GCDs without having to do my primary role (healing) and can pew pew as much as I want. I'M DOING 2% LESS DAMAGE. SO GAME BREAKING, PLEASE BUFF.

Seriously, that difference is so minimal and also in such a unlikely situation of a WHM pure DPSing that it's almost laughable you're throwing such an extreme tantrum over it.

Here's an excel sheet to back up my numbers. The top half is the hypothetical new ability rotation, the bottom is the 2.5 ability rotation. Note also that one seems to be much more engaging! I'm not just pressing one goddamn button over and over again! Wow! Mind blowing!




LIKELY SCENARIO OF WHM PURE DPSING FOR 8 GCDS (ROUGHLY 25 SECONDS)

Let's look at a more common scenario seen in most recent dungeon pulls. 2 sets of mobs, 3 mobs each; 6 mobs in total.

Let's continue using the HIGHLY unlikely scenario of a WHM not needing to heal between Holying, and also the UNLIKELY SCENARIO that a WHM can string together 8 GCDs worth of DPS without needing to heal or attend to other responsibilities.

Assumptions include the first Holy being swift-casted as well as Presence of Mind used after the first Holy.

PATCH 2.5

With the old rotation of just Holy Holy Holy spam, we're looking at 200 potency a Holy on each enemy, making each GCD 1200 potency worth. That means in 8 GCDs of nothing but Holy, that equates to 9600 total potency of damage dealt.

PATCH 3.0

Being consistent, let's assume the new WHM rotation is similar to the above.

Aero III nuke will now do 300 potency, with 6 enemies, on the 1st GCD.

Each Holy will now do 900 potency a GCD. 7 GCDs, so that makes it 6300 potency.

Now, I'm going to change things up. I'm going to give the Aero III DoT a VERY GENEROUS nerf because the spell speed changes are apparently going to be minimalist, yes? Each DoT will now do 33 potency per tick, or roughly 75% of the original Aero III tick. That means the Aero III Dot will now do 200 total potency a GCD. With 7 GCDs, that'll be 1400 potency.

And let's not forget lovely Assize. 300 potency times 6, 1800 potency.

The total? 300 + 6300 + 1500 + 1800. Total potency of 9800.

9600 vs 9800 potency. Oh, what is this, you mean in a likely scenario of 6 or less enemies, with a considerable nerf to the Aero III DoT, the new rotation will STILL DO MORE POTENCY? BLASPHEMY. SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG, TAKE IT BACK TO THE DRAWING OFFICE, SE. THAT 200 POTENCY IS TOO MUCH.

Again, I shall provide the calculations, similar to above. I even kindly used the same sheet as before, same formulaes, for consistency.



FINAL VERDICT?

It's obvious that upon reaching larger number of enemies (we're talking 10+ mobs here), there is less potential DPS from WHM for AoE. But in a more reasonable environment of 3-6 mobs? WHM actually got a BOOST to it's AoE power.


So darling? You be overreacting. Take a chill pill.

[Virin]

Can't edit from phone for some reason. On top of that remember as a Blm you will be juggling a timer with diminishing returns to max your time with f4. The changes to all classes I have seen lead me to believe encounters especially boss encounters will have hefty add phases. Why give e4e a way to spread? Why give plenty of aoe heals and aoe shields why give a way to heal others and mt with one cast? I don't expect HW to be as similar to ARR as people expect.

[Talshara_Blade]

Holy should still work just wonderful on legitimate mob pulls. As a whm that LOVES to spam holy .. I have no problem with this whatsoever .. frankly huge dungeon pulls should have been giving a giant dmg bonus to all badguys to ensure they never could happen in the first place. However, I do thing that CC (Sleep and Repose) should have been a legitimate way to be able to bypass atleast some trash mobs. Kind of sad how they really have almost no use, cause when you REALLY need them, shit is immune to them lol