Holy and Flare diminishing returns nerf

[TriksteR]

What about fire 4/blizzard 4, are they going to be AoE [?] I'm curious to see the ''new'' blm rotation.

[Malevicton]

What about fire 4/blizzard 4, are they going to be AoE

Nope, single target. Our aoe rotation is pretty much the same, just significantly worse

[Odett]

What about fire 4/blizzard 4, are they going to be AoE [?] I'm curious to see the ''new'' blm rotation.

Don't think they'll be AoE. New single target BLM rotation is looking like (roughly)

Ley Lines, Thunder 2, Fire 3, Enochian, Raging Strikes, Fire 4, Fire 4 (IDK how much MP this will take up), Fire 1, use Firestarters and weave in a Sharpcast after your Fire III during the downtime, keep doing that, Swiftcast Flare at 300-500 MP, Convert, Fire 1, Blizzard 3, refresh Enochian with Blizzard 4 as needed when it's about to fall off.

[Ecks007]

Aww... my whm just got a little less awesome to play now. /sadface

Well, looks like I'm gonna just be focusing on Smn and Drk now with Whm being the third wheel for cures onry and weak aoe dmg. Gonna have to stick to my aeros and stones.

[Adire]

Yet another dent in my hype.

Makes me glad I don't main BLM anymore, but I'll miss the fun of actually having a powerful AoE.

[Edellis]

On reflection, the reason they probably went to nerfing these abilities is because the moment you are fighting 3 enemies at once, AoE becomes the hands down optimal strategy, and this is multiplied for each enemy after 3.



As you can see, with only 4 enemies Flare reaches an effective potency of 1050. In Expert runs this starts to get pretty ridiculous. 2 Black Mages are almost always the optimal team in dungeon runs. Combined with the fact they don't have to worry about TP depletion and Fire 2 is the only high-potency sustainable AoE in the game, and i believe on paper BLM definitely deserved this nerf. They likely nerfed these to make room for other classes during dungeon content.


I'm surprised these attacks lasted as long as they did anyway. I remember TERA had a system that actually divided AoE damage between targets hit, so that no matter how many were caught in the blast, you always did a set amount of total damage. At least XIV is keeping the minimum damage at 50%.


While other damage sources were kept in check, FFXIV let AoE damage run wild all through 2.0, and the entire dungeon endgame was built around this and there was really nothing they could do about it.


It was either nerf Flare/Holy, or make the enemies too difficult to mass pull. I think this was a fair change, way better idea than the latter. Even with this nerf, Black Mage is still the hands-down optimal class for AoE, and Flare is still the strongest AoE ability. It just isn't so much more optimal than anything the other classes could achieve anymore.

[Miakisaki]

On reflection, the reason they probably went to nerfing these abilities is because the moment you are fighting 3 enemies at once, AoE becomes the hands down optimal strategy, and this is multiplied for each enemy after 3.

Isn't this the point of even having aoe abilities though? I mean chain pulling is still going to occur in 3.0 with or without these nerfs unless the dungeons are built around gates. Groups without these two jobs still chain pulled, and nobody was kicked from DF groups for not being one of the two. So I'm not seeing where the problem is, when all the nerf does is make dungeon running slower for comps that happen to have one of the two jobs.

Both classes were Mages. Wizards. They were meant to be aoe masters, because that was their identity. Our time to shine was during dungeon aoe pulls, while other classes could put out significantly more dps against single target bosses as a balance. That balance is gone now. May as well give SCH Stoneskin II and call it a day, lol.

[Odett]

We're not even sure how the new skills are going to re-balance the job because Enochian and Ley Lines sound absolutely OP. Why don't we test out the job first, as well as see how this plays in the context of new dungeon designs before acting like it's the end of the world?

[Edellis]

Both classes were Mages. Wizards. They were meant to be aoe masters, because that was their identity. Our time to shine was during dungeon aoe pulls, while other classes could put out significantly more dps against single target bosses as a balance. That balance is gone now.

Haha, what? How? Even with diminishing returns, Flare is still going to put out more effective DPS than any single-target sans a limit break could ever hope to. Holy was nerfed alongside Flare, so literally nothing has changed in terms of BLM holding the AoE damage title.

Flare only has a potency of 300 with no Astral Fire. At Astral Fire III it's closer to 560 Potency, so that chart is wrong.

I'm really confused, if flare was really a issue, why didn't they nerf it back when they nerfed holy over a year ago? Also if your going to add diminishing returns to holy, restore the original potency on it. Honestly if they felt flare was OP you would of thought they'd have made a change to it long ago. 50% is a huge nerf imo. Also do we even know how the game is going to decide which mobs are going to get the reduced effects? Will it be random each flare? Like if we double/triple flare, are different mobs going to get the full effect each cast, or is it up to RNG? smh

It's most likely proximity based, but i don't really see how it matters either way. The first enemy is getting full blast.

And I don't think Holy really needs its potency back, it was still sufficiently powerful at 200 potency, and WHM later gets Assize which is essentially pre-nerf Flare with no proration that's off the GCD.

How does eonichen sound op, the only official news from se we have on it is it grants access to blizzard 4 and fire 4 and that's it. I haven't seen the official eonichen but what se has told us about it so far it's a worthless skill until lvl 60

It has changed since then, it makes no sense for Enochian to ONLY grant those spells when it's a level 56 skill. It does something else we don't know about. Originally it was said to be a level 60 skill.

Blizzard IV is 58, and Fire IV is 60. That's like getting Kassatsu on Ninja before you get a mudra.

For all we know, Enochian could boost flare past what it currently is. We'll know tomorrow.

[Twilite]

I can count on one hand how many BLMs I've teamed up with...

I'm done with this thread. It's being blown out of proportion.