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  1. #1331
    Player
    SunnyHirose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    597
    Character
    Sunny Hirose
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Potions act synergistically with other buffs and attack abilities, so they're actually a bit better than that in practice. Definitely good for DRG's wombo combo opener, especially since in most fights, there's nothing to stop it in those first 20ish seconds.
    (1)

  2. #1332
    Player
    Greyfrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    197
    Character
    Ichi Greyfrost
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70
    What about the rotation post-opener though, do you use the potions during the 15s where your rotation does the most damage?

    Let's say, popping a pot after Dis, means you get buffed CT>4th>phle>TTT ?
    (0)

  3. #1333
    Player
    SunnyHirose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    597
    Character
    Sunny Hirose
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    In most cases, you're holding it for the next available Blood for Blood. The 30% buff is ridiculous; nothing a potion will do to your normal rotation can match up to that.
    (1)

  4. #1334
    Player
    Adaxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    New Gridania, Black Shroud
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Tyr Astyrra
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    Blood for Blood for Life!
    (0)

  5. #1335
    Player
    Thendiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Thendiel Swansong
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    Hey, Dervy. I was doing some work for updating my guide, and stumbled across some interesting conclusions concerning the Rotation of Shame. Basically, my initial purpose was to prove that your Rotation of Shame was ideal, but after I crunched the numbers, I wasn't completely certain.

    More specifically, I discovered that your approach was superior by only a very tiny, tiny amount. Here are my numbers, under the assumption that we have a 2.4-second GCD:

    Rotation of Shame:

    HT ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ Ph ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ (repeat)

    Initial-hit damage: (170 x 1.10) + ((180 + 220 + 250 + 170 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 150 + 200 + 360) x 1.15 x 1.10) = 3020.6 potency across 11 GCDs

    (Note: the HT buff will vanish before HT reapplies every 11 GCDs)

    DoT damage: 100% CT uptime, but Ph falls off for 2.4 seconds every 11 GCDs

    (26.4 seconds x (1 tick / 3 seconds)) x (35 x 1.15) potency per CT tick = 354.2 potency

    (24 seconds x (1 tick / 3 seconds)) x (30 x 1.15) potency per Ph tick = 276 potency

    Therefore, 3020.6 + 354.2 + 276 = 3650.8 potency across 11 GCDs, or (3650.8 potency / 11 GCDs)= 331.89 potency per hit

    Alternative Rotation of Shame (identical to our pre-HW GCD rotation):

    HT ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ Ph ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ HT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ Ph ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ HT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ Ph ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ (repeat)

    Initial-hit damage: (170 + 180 + 220 + 250 + 170 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 170 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 170 + 180 + 220 + 250 + 170 + 150 + 200 + 360 + 170 + 150 + 200 + 360) x 1.15 x 1.10 = 6527.4 potency across 24 GCDs

    DoT damage: 100% CT uptime and 100% Ph uptime

    (57.6 seconds x (1 tick / 3 seconds)) x (35 x 1.15) potency per CT tick = 772.8 potency

    (57.6 seconds x (1 tick / 3 seconds)) x (30 x 1.15) potency per Ph tick = 662.4 potency

    Therefore, 6527.4 + 772.8 + 662.4 = 8215.6 potency across 24 GCDs, or (7962.6 potency / 24 GCDs) = 331.78 potency per hit

    That's a difference of 331.89 - 331.78 = 0.11 potency per hit, or 0.0458 potency per second. Again, you are technically right that your approach is ideal if we can't maintain BotD, but then I got to thinking: isn't the Alternative Rotation of Shame here better for re-injecting ourselves back into the regular Blood of the Dragon-based rotation? With your approach, we might potentially end up with something like...

    HT ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ Ph ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT -(BotD)⇢ FT -(HT falls off)⇢ 4th ⇢ HT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT -(Ph falls off)⇢ FT ⇢ 4th ⇢ Ph ⇢ etc.

    ...which gives us about 5 seconds of Heavy Thrust downtime and about 7 seconds of Phlebotomize downtime. With the Alternative Rotation of Shame, we'd get...

    HT ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ Ph ⇢ TT ⇢ VT ⇢ FT ⇢ HT ⇢ TT ⇢ VT -(BotD)⇢ FT ⇢ 4th ⇢ Ph ⇢ ID ⇢ Dis ⇢ CT ⇢ 4th ⇢ HT ⇢ etc.

    ...during which time HT, Ph, Dis, and CT would all have 100% uptime.

    So, it seems to me that we'd want to favor the Alternative RoS, since it gives us smoother BotD re-injection in exchange for an extremely small abstract DPS loss while BotD is down. Granted, the scenario I've outlined for BotD re-injection with your original RoS represents an absolute worse-case scenario, but there are other possible scenarios that involve just a 5-second pocket of HT downtime or just a 5-second pocket of Ph downtime.

    Anyway, let me know what you think. It's possible that I'm overlooking something, or running the numbers incorrectly somehow.
    (1)
    Last edited by Thendiel; 08-16-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  6. #1336
    Player
    Dervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,537
    Character
    Dervy Yakimi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    I guess this could be something that should be reviewed by a case-by-case scenario.

    Example, your BotD messed up, you have 30s on your BotD cooldown, but you have a phase jump or something in 20s, which lasts for 15s. RoS would be better as it will give you the most PPS, then you can restart your rotation from scratch.

    Then there will be times where Alternative RoS will be much better, where there's a smooth phase transition. EG... A3S with the Limb Split, which is a DPS check. Alternative RoS would be best, as it would get you your maximum PPS much faster.

    The Potency difference is so small that it wouldn't really matter that much in the end, as long as the cooldown on your Blood of the Dragon is relatively short.
    (0)

  7. #1337
    Player
    Thendiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Thendiel Swansong
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    That's a fair point. Still, if the issue is that the enemy is about to jump away, it seems to me that you're dealing with less of a "How should I manage the rotation of shame?" issue, and more of a "What should I do with X GCDs remaining?" issue.

    I would tend to think that, in the overwhelming majority of cases, one would want to run Alt RoS since the PPS difference is so negligible and it's "safer," barring a phase jump.
    (0)

  8. #1338
    Player
    Dervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,537
    Character
    Dervy Yakimi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Well, I'll add Alternative RoS to the OP as well. People will just have to make the critical judgement what would be best, given their situation, as the potency difference is so small/similar and both have their Pros/Cons.
    (0)

  9. #1339
    Player
    SunnyHirose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    597
    Character
    Sunny Hirose
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    If we want to get super pedantic, the HT dropoff probably tips the scales microscopically in the favor of going oldschool due to autoattacks. At least at 2.40 GCD.
    (1)

  10. #1340
    Player
    Thendiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Thendiel Swansong
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    I'm always in favor of getting super pedantic!
    (3)

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