How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[QCrimson]

but dropping potency to a third because of say, ground persistent AoE like in turn 10 or titan EX for example, where its not only dangerous but downright suicidal, is bad design.

I can't think of a single moment in Titan ex in which you can't land your positionals. Same goes for turn 10, except maybe when the boss is about to charge. Not saying those moments don't exist in other fights (T11, Ravana ex, ?) but the good thing about our rotation is that it's flexible. If you feel like using the 4th hit is too much of a hassle in certain situations then skip it. Your DPS won't be as good, but it should be good enough.

[spelley]

snip

From what few reports/parses I've seen it seems like DRG is still putting up the highest numbers. My guess would be that DRG has the highest potential DPS if all 3 Geirksoguls can be fired off, but they are "balanced" for around 1-2 per minute.. All the DPS jobs have something that can "screw them" out of max DPS:

- NIN has the least combo downtime but they also have to deal with latency issues that greatly effect Mudras/their entire rotation.
- MNKs obviously have to deal with maintaining GL which is also effected by mechanics/jumps
- BLM are heavily dependent on positioning and minimizing movement
- SMN have to deal with jump phases as well because if they mistime a Tri-Disaster/long duration DoT just as a mob jumps, they lose a lot of damage and have to time their Trance usage.
- MCH and BRD have their own set of problems at the moment outside of their class, but movement now effects them similar to BLM in certain instances

[spelley]

And thats where we hit the issue. SNIP.

AOE isn't the "point" of Geirskogul, it's just bonus free damage if you line the mobs/adds up properly. It's not used for the 6+ enemy speedpulls, but while single targeting down <= 3-4 mobs, throwing Geirskogul out while doing your normal rotation you get a bunch of free DPS on the others. Also, you can't really maintain HT -> RoT, DT Spam very long before TP runs dry. Usually in a big pull I'm forced to use the AoE rotation, burn Invig, do it some more and then ~200 TP left or so I go back to single target rotation w/BotD Geirskogul's helping put out as much as possible.

Basically, you should be looking at Geirskogul as a 200 potency oGCD with a cooldown of about 20s in high-uptime fights and a 30s cooldown on "erratic" fights that does bonus damage to groups.

[seekified]

And thats where we hit the issue. i cannot imagine any sane player using geirskogul with all its build up and maintenance as a lane AoE, when doomspike does the same thing, with only 40 less potency per hit, and hits immediately at a much faster rate. 1 geirskogul= 200 times X number of mobs, every 20-30 seconds. doomspike = 160 times same number of mobs, 5-8 times in the same time frame,it doesnt even compare. the Lane AoE factor is a handicap that holds geirskogul down in order to give it a place in a situation where there is no worth in using it.

It won't be used in a "pure" AoE situation, as in 4+ fairly weak mobs that'll easily die from DS spams before I run out of TP. Hitting the whole pack with GK is a bonus while doing the single-target rotation, just like DFD is in those situations.

EDIT: spelley was faster.

[Arienal]

Basically, you should be looking at Geirskogul as a 200 potency oGCD with a cooldown of about 20s in high-uptime fights and a 30s cooldown on "erratic" fights that does bonus damage to groups.

And so our 'big hitter' is nothing more than a 200 potency leg sweep every 20-30 seconds with absurd build up and punishing of mistakes. Again, this is not worth the effort to even be using for the small amount of gain you do get for it. I throw leg sweep into my rotation because its instant, oGCD, and most bosses are immune to stun anyway. Geir's build up and maintenance for just a stronger version of that leg sweep isn't justifiable.

[seekified]

And so our 'big hitter' is nothing more than a 200 potency leg sweep every 20-30 seconds with absurd build up and punishing of mistakes. Again, this is not worth the effort to even be using for the small amount of gain you do get for it. I throw leg sweep into my rotation because its instant, oGCD, and most bosses are immune to stun anyway. Geir's build up and maintenance for just a stronger version of that leg sweep isn't justifiable.

Then don't use it and be a worse DRG than people who do.

[Mibhas]

And so our 'big hitter' is nothing more than a 200 potency leg sweep every 20-30 seconds with absurd build up and punishing of mistakes. Again, this is not worth the effort to even be using for the small amount of gain you do get for it. I throw leg sweep into my rotation because its instant, oGCD, and most bosses are immune to stun anyway. Geir's build up and maintenance for just a stronger version of that leg sweep isn't justifiable.

Are you trolling or something? The whole point of the Expansion was to give classes added depth and put some complexity on there. If you think GK is so bad, then just don't use it and doom yourself to be a third-rate Dragoon. I did a Ravana Extreme yesterday, and GK was 39.71 of my DPS (5%), and that was using it pretty much entirely in a single target fashion, not hitting multiple targets with one. Considering the AoE opportunities there were in FCoB (T10 adds, T12 Bennus, T13 add phase), that percentage is likely going to increase come future raids. Come on man.

[spelley]

Geir's build up and maintenance for just a stronger version of that leg sweep isn't justifiable.

Actually, our Big Hitter these days is probably Power Surged Jump (which is actually pretty awesome that our spike damage is our iconic ability). It's a matter of opinion on whether the effort:value ratio is "worth it." Personally, it helps me be a better DPS and I know I wouldn't give up the damage on Leg Sweep for anything, so why would I give up "free" 200 DPS (with potential for much higher) just because it requires me to learn my class better? Anyway, it isn't actually particularly difficult to maintain 2 Geirskogul/min from what I've seen in most content. 3 is the "ideal" but not required.

PS: 4.3k Heavy Thrusted, Blood for Blooded, Blood of the Dragoned, Power Surged, Critical Jump is beautiful to behold.

[Arienal]

Are you trolling or something?

No, i assure you I am quite serious. And i don't use geir, yet you know what? despite the fact im still using my pre-HW rotations, aside from BoTD paired with BfB. and yet i still out perform other dragoon's i group with who ARE using geir every chance they get, this happens much too often for it to just be "oh they were a bad drg" so please, enlighten me how i can be a "third rate drg" as you put it, and still outperform people who ARE using this?
All this new ability set does is make us run around more. thats it, thats not added depth.

[Dervy]

I just think of Geirskogul as an "unloader". Imaging you have a bucket on a scale and there's a pipe that's constantly filling it up with sand. The weight cannot go beyond 10KG and never below 5kg, otherwise the scale breaks. The sand cannot go over the rim of the bucket. Well, what do you do?

You grab a cup and empty out the bucket every time it starts filling up too much.

At least, that's how I think of it in very child-like, simplistic terms. Bad analogy, I know, but there's absolutely no point in holding Geirskogul.

People are thinking about too many "what ifs" and too much about "punishment". It's not punishing at all, just, don't use a GK or delay it for the next combo, lol. If you don't use GK at all, by the time you hit your 3rd 4th combo, your BotD now has 30s on its timer.

So thinking about it like this, if you're using the "Basic" rotation, you can fit your first Geirskogul after your first 4th combo (IDC4) and you can fit your last GK at 60s or 62s into your rotation just before your BotD refresh, which is either after IDC4, or a Phlebotomize.

This, gives you an amazing gap 30 seconds, or 3 4th combos to use your "second" Gierskogul. http://puu.sh/iLTCA/9fb03d1903.png You don't even need to use your next GK after your BotD instantly either. You can delay it until the next IDC4 combo which pops up.

I don't see what the complaining is about. It's not a punishing mechanic, you just need to learn the timings and the relationships between your GCDs and BotD timing.

No, i assure you I am quite serious. And i don't use geir, yet you know what? despite the fact im still using my pre-HW rotations, aside from BoTD paired with BfB. and yet i still out perform other dragoon's i group with who ARE using geir every chance they get, this happens much too often for it to just be "oh they were a bad drg" so please, enlighten me how i can be a "third rate drg" as you put it, and still outperform people who ARE using this?
All this new ability set does is make us run around more. thats it, thats not added depth.

That means they are bad dragoons, as the new BotD rotation is 27.33 Potency Per Second higher if executed correctly. It doesn't matter if you miss out on a GK, or if you hit a 100 Potency positional every while, it's a 27.33 Potency increase, straight out.

New 3.0 Rotation:


Old 2.5 Rotation:


PPS is highlighted AB33 - AD33, highlighted in purple "Max PPS".

Stop comparing rotations with newer players who don't understand their new rotations and/or lack skills. Because the math doesn't checkout with your subjective statements at all.