How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[spelley]

Snip

Without the 4th hits, our old rotation is what you'd want to do as that had the highest potency/buff uptime before we got the new abilities. Probably best to not think of it as a "rotation" at this point however but a priority system as you won't be maintaining the old rotation for long (as you'll want to use BotD after the next Vorpal Thrust/Disembowel after it goes off CD). So once it falls out, you should basically do this:

1) Finish whatever combo you started (assuming you are in middle of one)
2) <8 sec on HT? Repply (at less than 7-8s it will fall out before you finish another combo)
3) <8 sec on Disembowel/Chaos Thrust? CT Combo (Disembowel and CT ticks are more important than...)
4) <8 sec on Phleb? Reapply
5) Everything gonna up? TTT.

Hopefully you'll be back to doing BotD after you do a round of repplying. If not, after each 1-2-3 combo, check the priority list and react accordingly. At least that's what I'd do.

[Craiger]

I have played MNK as main up until now, but got bored with the new abilities after playing on it at 60, so now I've just leveled my DRG to 60, and I've tried out the rotation that has been thrown around as the "official" rotation (kinda).

My question is now (already), what would be the best realistic rotation to use in raids? That rotation works well on a dummy and all, but I literally use the 4th combo skill just as BoTD is about to fall off... We're talking about milliseconds here. That won't work most of the time. It will only work in fights where you know 100% there won't be anything you have to dodge that will stop you from spamming skills, and there usually is some random target thing or something in fights.

You're also using BoTD during the rotation for it not to fall off, but I feel this would be a bad choice in many cases, since if you lose it because of some mechanic, you then have to wait for it to come off CD again.

Greased Lightning was the whole challenge with MNK, to keep it up while dodging mechanics etc. But you still have plenty of time to reapply it if you continuously hit the target... That DRG rotation pretty much is like how MNKs opener was in 2.X, where you had almost no space left to reapply GL after using Perfect Balance, only this is all the time.

SE must have intended for us to use a different rotation, where you use less Geirskogul, cause this just won't do it. SE have said before that they didn't intend for some rotations that people found out, and then changed things based on the new rotation... So maybe they change the time on BoTD or reduce the amount Geirskogul consumes, but one thing is for sure, this rotation won't work realistically.

[Mibhas]

There's nothing wrong with the rotation. If you're worried about BoTD falling off, just use GK less. You can play it safe while learning fights, and once you are confident with the fight and know the mechanics and their timings, you can use GK more often in a way that doesn't make BoTD not drop off. I personally use 90% of the rotation like normal in Ravana Ex, and only save the occasional GK based on downtime (e.g. running from orbs) or so I can shift them a few seconds away so I can use more in a red phase instead.

[Dervy]

My question is now (already), what would be the best realistic rotation to use in raids? That rotation works well on a dummy and all, but I literally use the 4th combo skill just as BoTD is about to fall off... We're talking about milliseconds here. That won't work most of the time. It will only work in fights where you know 100% there won't be anything you have to dodge that will stop you from spamming skills, and there usually is some random target thing or something in fights.

There is no "Realistic" rotation for raids. There never has been for any Job (well, I guess Bard and BLM....) You can never go 1-2-3-4 in any Raid Encounter. There's always some mechanic you need to handle where you need to use your knowledge of skills and capitalise on it for maximum up time. There's parts where it's best to go H - ID - DI - TTT, there's parts where just doing TTT is best.

The same is said about the 3.0, but on a much grand scale. There is no best rotation. For Bismarck + Ravana EX, you do something differently all the time to handle the mechanics. Oh you got Prelude to Liberation? H - DI - ID - TTT. You've got Pillars of Heaven? H - P (Knock-back) - IDC4. This phase lasts 20s? I'll save BotD for the next phase.

I've got BotD timer ticking good, BotD is coming up soon, but there's a phase transition in the next 15 seconds? Hold BotD cooldown for the next phase.

About to enter Phase Transition? Blow GK

I'm now dealing with adds which die in 4 GCDs? TTT4 spam!

Oh, there's a mechanic where I'm going to be knocked-back and unable to use GK as my BotD will fall of? Hold GK until you've hit your next 4th Combo where it's safe again.

You're also using BoTD during the rotation for it not to fall off, but I feel this would be a bad choice in many cases, since if you lose it because of some mechanic, you then have to wait for it to come off CD again.

This is rarely the case if you're not throwing GK's like a wild man and anticipate the raid Mechanics.

[QCrimson]

This way if you miss, you aren't penalized

I think you're missing the point somehow...

[Jonnycbad]

The point is to increase BOTD duration, I am aware, but if you miss your positional on the 4th hit, it's a DPS loss. I'm not saying negate the positional requirement for the full 290 potency, I'm just saying make it less important. The difference between a front/flank Chaos Thrust and a rear is +/- 50 potency, the difference between flank HT and front/rear HT is +/- 70 potency. The difference between a correct positional FC/WT? +/- 190 potency. That's a pretty steep penalty.

[QCrimson]

Yes, and that's precisely the point. High reward, high risk. It's fine the way it is, you're not supposed to be at 100% at all times.

[AzureKoi]

The point is to increase BOTD duration, I am aware, but if you miss your positional on the 4th hit, it's a DPS loss. I'm not saying negate the positional requirement for the full 290 potency, I'm just saying make it less important. The difference between a front/flank Chaos Thrust and a rear is +/- 50 potency, the difference between flank HT and front/rear HT is +/- 70 potency. The difference between a correct positional FC/WT? +/- 190 potency. That's a pretty steep penalty.

I feel like the penalty is compensated by the 30% boost to Jump and SSDive as well as the ability to cast 2-3 GK per minute. Overall its an increase in DPS, it just makes the difference between a good increase and a great increase depending on if you are hitting your positionals for FC/WT. It really isn't a big deal to me and makes fights feel more engaging if anything.

Just remember the times when we had to flank or no HT buff, or we had to hit the rear or no CT combo lol. Those were far worse penalties ;P

[Tilgung]

Yes, and that's precisely the point. High reward, high risk. It's fine the way it is, you're not supposed to be at 100% at all times.

Nope. High risk, high reward is dancing with Earthshakers next to Bahamut to maintain as much up time as you can.

Wheeling Thrust proc on Ravana when the only damageable spot is on one of the flanks is RNG punishment.

[enil]

Nope. High risk, high reward is dancing with Earthshakers next to Bahamut to maintain as much up time as you can.

Wheeling Thrust proc on Ravana when the only damageable spot is on one of the flanks is RNG punishment.

Positionals have been in FFXIV since release. It's part of being melee, it's part of the game. If anything dragoons were more heavily punished for their positionals when HT and ID did not progress your combo if you did not get the positional.

Go play DPS warrior if you don't want to deal with positionals.

Let's say we do have forced phases where it's not possible to hit positionals, at what point is it worth to dump BoTD on GK and skip 4th combo (miss 1,2,3 4th combos depending on BoTD cooldown?), at what point is it worth to skip 4th combo but not dump it on GK and resume 4th combo on the next combo (assuming you have enough BoTD time).