How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Dervy]

Wow. It's looking more and more like the Skillcap of Dragoon is insanely high... I hope that comes with being top DPS if you play correctly.

[Aiurily]

if you EVER jump after a FT/CT and your rng 50/50 4th hit combo proc doesn't line up with your position, enjoy clipped GCD or -190 potency penalty lol

even at precise flank/rear edging (gl maintaining that for 100% of the fight), this is incredibly dumb on a lot of levels. if wheeling thrust/fang & claw was the level 60 DRG job skill, no one would actually do that job quest because it screams "hey, doing this quest makes your dps life a lot harder and lower on average"

[pandabearcat]

Well it seems the solution is to not jump during those skills.

[Hyrist]

I tend to jump earlier in combat anyways and the animation in jump is touch shorter. I don't think this is going to be as much of an issue.

However, in that particular case I'd rather clip the cooldown on Jump, then clip the combo and risk losing BtoD prematurely.

Rotationally this shouldn't affect us too heavily as we're best positioned on the "Corner" and adjustments for context should be fairly quick - baring specific fight mechanics. Given the line-AoE nature of Geirskogul, that will actually give us some range on its use as well.

Anyways, jumping into the conversation of simplifying the guidelines into an easy to understand priority system - just off the math theory we have thanks to Thendiel - it looks like the "Green Light" for using Geirskogul is if your BotD timer has 19 or more seconds left on its duration, or if your BtoD timer is back up/nearly up.

Everything else seems fairly straight forward giving a matter of discretion for usage of Life Surge. Seems to be a matter of using it for 4th Tiers or True Thrust, whichever is the closest cooldown when LS returns.

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As far as controller usage - I have a fair amount of redundancy on my controls anyways (I hybrid my defensive cooldowns). I'm fairly certain I can arrange some of the "4th" attacks to still feel comfortable in my setup.

[Dervy]

Anyways, jumping into the conversation of simplifying the guidelines into an easy to understand priority system - just off the math theory we have thanks to Thendiel - it looks like the "Green Light" for using Geirskogul is if your BotD timer has 19 or more seconds left on its duration, or if your BtoD timer is back up/nearly up.

The general consensus is to use Geirskogul after every 4th-tier combo, like what I posted many pages back. The thing is, all of Thendiels math is kinda broken, as at i180 + i190 weapon, we have 597 Skillspeed, or a GCD of 2.256. At that level of Skillspeed, there's quite of interesting things happening, such as god-tier DoT clipping, BotD falling off at odd times, but your average GK per/min is much higher.

I think its 597 at least.... It's over 540 Total SS, that's what I remember.

The safety time at that level of Skillspeed to use Geirskogul without letting BotD fall off is around 17s.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3039253

That's what the Rotation will be like with a GCD of 2.40

Everything else seems fairly straight forward giving a matter of discretion for usage of Life Surge. Seems to be a matter of using it for 4th Tiers or True Thrust, whichever is the closest cooldown when LS returns.

Very hard to say so. Again, I've also done some testing. If you use LS on the first FT, the 2nd is on a 4th tier, the 3rd is on an HT, 4th is on like impulse drive, lmao.

Everything will need a lot of testing, and our rotation is going to change constantly whenever we reach a new SS threshold.

[spelley]

Thinking I might write a couple of small scripts to help simulate some stuff. With that much skill speed difference from 50-60 we might need to create a spreadsheet to show best rotations for various breakpoints.

Honestly at this point I might even make a visual "timelime" web app where you can drag skills etc along a timeline with buff duration tracking. Wouldn't be super technical but would make looking at it a bit easier I think (at least for visual people like me)

Would anyone be interested in a tool like that?

[Dervy]

I already have the spreadsheet - I've had it since patch 2.1 and it's already been fully updated with the new 3.0 information, with dynamic GK/WT/FC and BotD timers already. The only information I need now is how SS affects DoTs, Critical Hit Rating, observe the new Determination changes and according to Viridiana, there's more stat-value changes that aren't in the Patch notes.

Give me 2 weeks or so and I'll have vague stat-weights up and in August, they should be a lot more accurate with more data samples and concise models. Pandabearcat also has his SimFF Simulator that is nearly ready. All we need to do is learn the language of it and we'll be using that. Don't worry about it

[Thendiel]

The general consensus is to use Geirskogul after every 4th-tier combo, like what I posted many pages back. The thing is, all of Thendiels math is kinda broken, as at i180 + i190 weapon, we have 597 Skillspeed, or a GCD of 2.256. At that level of Skillspeed, there's quite of interesting things happening, such as god-tier DoT clipping, BotD falling off at odd times, but your average GK per/min is much higher.

I think its 597 at least.... It's over 540 Total SS, that's what I remember.

The safety time at that level of Skillspeed to use Geirskogul without letting BotD fall off is around 17s.

Why 17 seconds? Don't you need 10 seconds for the Geirskogul itself, plus the duration of 5 GCDs that we should experience between 4th combo hits? I must be missing something.

ahaha oh wow, this is actually really fucking annoying

it's not that FT and CT can chain into either BoTD combo like i mistakenly said earlier, it's that there is a 50/50 chance of proccing either F&C or WT. so if you do TT>VT>FT, you will either proc F&C for a 290 potency flank, or a WT for a 290 potency rear, at a 50% chance each. so for example, if you do something very typical like rear chaos thrust>(jump) and you proc F&C, there's no way you're gonna get the F&C flank proc without losing a bit of your GCD. that's going to take some getting used to

I... wow. I did not see that coming.

[Dervy]

Why 17 seconds? Don't you need 10 seconds for the Geirskogul itself, plus the duration of 5 GCDs that we should experience between 4th combo hits? I must be missing something.

Sorry, I confused myself with something else I'm looking at with very high SS as I'm worried about the interaction it will have with our Rotation and BotD timers, etc.

Though, at 2.256 GCD, which is what I'm playing around with, I have this to test out:

54.15s = FC (21.51 BotD left) - GK - PH - TTT - WT [15.23 BotD left, BotD CD up] - GK [5.23 BotD left] - HT - ID [BotD Falls off] - DI - BotD - CT - WT - GK

You have 1 GCD where you don't have a BotD, but you're pumping 4 GKs per BotD at this Skillspeed.

EDIT: You can weave oCDs, including Jump and Spineshatter Dive in between CT/FT and FC.

[KefL0]

so which one is the best rotation that i can have?