How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Dervy]

I just think of Geirskogul as an "unloader". Imaging you have a bucket on a scale and there's a pipe that's constantly filling it up with sand. The weight cannot go beyond 10KG and never below 5kg, otherwise the scale breaks. The sand cannot go over the rim of the bucket. Well, what do you do?

You grab a cup and empty out the bucket every time it starts filling up too much.

At least, that's how I think of it in very child-like, simplistic terms. Bad analogy, I know, but there's absolutely no point in holding Geirskogul.

People are thinking about too many "what ifs" and too much about "punishment". It's not punishing at all, just, don't use a GK or delay it for the next combo, lol. If you don't use GK at all, by the time you hit your 3rd 4th combo, your BotD now has 30s on its timer.

So thinking about it like this, if you're using the "Basic" rotation, you can fit your first Geirskogul after your first 4th combo (IDC4) and you can fit your last GK at 60s or 62s into your rotation just before your BotD refresh, which is either after IDC4, or a Phlebotomize.

This, gives you an amazing gap 30 seconds, or 3 4th combos to use your "second" Gierskogul. http://puu.sh/iLTCA/9fb03d1903.png You don't even need to use your next GK after your BotD instantly either. You can delay it until the next IDC4 combo which pops up.

I don't see what the complaining is about. It's not a punishing mechanic, you just need to learn the timings and the relationships between your GCDs and BotD timing.

No, i assure you I am quite serious. And i don't use geir, yet you know what? despite the fact im still using my pre-HW rotations, aside from BoTD paired with BfB. and yet i still out perform other dragoon's i group with who ARE using geir every chance they get, this happens much too often for it to just be "oh they were a bad drg" so please, enlighten me how i can be a "third rate drg" as you put it, and still outperform people who ARE using this?
All this new ability set does is make us run around more. thats it, thats not added depth.

That means they are bad dragoons, as the new BotD rotation is 27.33 Potency Per Second higher if executed correctly. It doesn't matter if you miss out on a GK, or if you hit a 100 Potency positional every while, it's a 27.33 Potency increase, straight out.

New 3.0 Rotation:


Old 2.5 Rotation:


PPS is highlighted AB33 - AD33, highlighted in purple "Max PPS".

Stop comparing rotations with newer players who don't understand their new rotations and/or lack skills. Because the math doesn't checkout with your subjective statements at all.

[Arienal]

Stop comparing rotations with newer players who don't understand their new rotations and/or lack skills. Because the math doesn't checkout with your subjective statements at all.

In theory assuming all goes well and the player knows the rotation and executes it, yes, it is a potency increase, thats not what i take issue with. I am not concerned with theoretical potential, I am concerned with practical application which, once you throw in dodging, mechanics, other player's competence and generally things that are beyond your control, 'that' is when this ability set doesn't hold up, 'that' is what i take issue with.

[seekified]

In theory assuming all goes well and the player knows the rotation and executes it, yes, it is a potency increase, thats not what i take issue with. I am not concerned with theoretical potential, I am concerned with practical application which, once you throw in dodging, mechanics, other player's competence and generally things that are beyond your control, 'that' is when this ability set doesn't hold up, 'that' is what i take issue with.

This is funny as I've been using this rotation to great effect since the 23rd. Granted, a few fights do limit the potential of GK and to a lesser extent BotD as a whole, but always using an outdated rotation because of that is an enormous waste.

[Dervy]

In theory assuming all goes well and the player knows the rotation and executes it, yes, it is a potency increase, thats not what i take issue with. I am not concerned with theoretical potential, I am concerned with practical application which, once you throw in dodging, mechanics, other player's competence and generally things that are beyond your control, 'that' is when this ability set doesn't hold up, 'that' is what i take issue with.

When you parse 800+ on Ravana Extreme Mode with the old Rotation, then we can start looking into it more. You're looking at it from a subjective point of view. Player skill is a huge factor for Dragoons now and that's evident when the average Dragoon parses 600-650 in Ravana EX, but we also see 800+ Ravana EX Parses.

[Arienal]

When you parse 800+ on Ravana Extreme Mode with the old Rotation, then we can start looking into it more.

I'll admit i havent yet fought ravana EX, what i am going by in terms of actual numbers is my experience on A)Bismark EX, and B)the two new EX dungeon bosses.
And in response to ArtificialxSky, i am not going to "make myself scarce" simply because my experience so far has been different than what you have seen, i came here for civil discussion yet you, and two others, have just gone to insults, that doesnt add much weight to your argument.

[enil]

I don't see any discussion points raised.
All I see is you complaining that you don't like how dragoon works, you don't like how positional works, you don't like GK, etc.
This isn't a thread about those things, if you look at the first post of this thread it's clearly about dealing with what the dragoon has been given in the expansion and trying to make the most out of it, please go to the other threads if you wish to complain to SE about how DRG sucks.

People keep complaining that


1. Procs are bad design. DRG have never had them before and even now they have the probably the simplest procs - if you don't enjoy reacting to procs (don't play BLM, BRD, MCN and now DRG).
2. You should be able to 100% maintain your rotation regardless of boss mechanics. Those boss mechanics are 100% there to make things harder for you, fights are suppose to be a challenge - you aren't suppose to be able to reach your maximum dummy dps but challenge you to do your best regardless. Melee have to deal with positionals, caster have to deal with cast time, some fights may favour other jobs, downtime sucks for some jobs, too much uptime sucks when you have resource issues. Not all jobs are made equally and thus effected different each fight.


If you don't like how DRG works anymore then I would suggest trying another job you might enjoy more? I'm enjoying the heck out of DRG right now. Learning to maximise BoTD duration, maximise GK use, minimising dps loss from positionals - I think the challenge is fun.

[ArtificialxSky]

The math speaks for itself. Don't come here making nebulous complaints about the DRG when members here have already spent far more time toiling to get the most out of the class and proving, using rigorous methodology and thorough analysis, that DRG is a far stronger class than it ever was before.

Frankly, if you're one of these people, please, make yourself scarce because you're annoying on the level of that one kid in philosophy class who holds the entire discussion back obsessing over minutiae or your own "feelings". Do us all a favor and read over from the beginning and engage in the same intellectual, hard-proof conversation as has been started in the OP. Until someone smarter or more thorough comes along, the answers provided by those crunching the numbers is law and your job is figure out how to optimally apply the data here to unique and challenging scenarios, not complain about misconceived problems--which is rude--so educate yourself first.

[Dervy]

I'm not insulting you at all, lol. But your arguments are, and I'll say it again, subjective, due to your own personal experience. "I've out DPS'd". "I've done better". Okay, you've done better than a few Dragoons with the older rotation. It doesn't mean it's better as a whole.

I just come off "harsh" when I type/talk as I'm direct, I don't sugar coat things.

Also, updated weights slightly more with my untested Critical Damage Mod. They're on the OP/Post 4 (Number Crunching Mess Hall), but for you lazy bunch, here they are!

WD: 8.688
STR: 1.000
DET: 0.120
CRT: 0.096
SS: 0.098

Once we hit 1000 AP + 80 WD, DET will be worth around 0.132.

[Mibhas]

Then show us some parses so we can know how competent these Dragoons are. I'm giving you "you suck" comments because you have given us 0 objective data to work with, and you haven't made any constructive points.

[Aiurily]

these secondary stats are so poverty qq