How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Arienal]

I have seen a few make comments on the solution to that is to just not use geir, and that alone adds further proof of how absolutely broken this entire ability set is. Blood exists to unlock our new attacks, fang and wheeling exist for a 4th step in our combo, but mainly to extend blood's duration, and all so we can pop geir. So the proposed solution is to not use the very attack that all this build up is meant for? Especially considering how weak that attack is? Rather than be a 'decreases duration' ability that can be used every 30 seconds, increase the potency and have it consume blood, that way it can really only be used once per minute and actually BE the big hitter we were promised.

[spelley]

snip

It's about being situationally aware. There are some bosses where high uptime is possible and you can throw out 3 Geirs a minute. There are a lot of fights where you can't. It's up to the player to learn the patterns and know when it is safe to blow it. The difference between the post-50 content and pre-50 content is that there are quite a few more mechanics-heavy fights compared to 1-50, all in the name of preparing people for EX Primals/Raid content (which I greatly appreciate).

Also, being a line AOE actually means that it can overperform quite a bit in anything that involves adds as it becomes 200*# of mobs worth of potency which is a big gain.

[seekified]

It's about being situationally aware. There are some bosses where high uptime is possible and you can throw out 3 Geirs a minute. There are a lot of fights where you can't. It's up to the player to learn the patterns and know when it is safe to blow it.

This. Due to the sheer amount of time spent in each of the coil turns, I know exactly where I'll be in my rotation when each mechanic pops and I've worked good ways of maintaining DPS uptime during add phases in places like T9, T10 and T13. Practice makes perfect, not just for doing a rotation but for knowing how best to plan ten seconds ahead in each fight. Part of what makes raiding fun I reckon.

[Arienal]

Also, being a line AOE actually means that it can overperform quite a bit in anything that involves adds as it becomes 200*# of mobs worth of potency which is a big gain.

And thats where we hit the issue. i cannot imagine any sane player using geirskogul with all its build up and maintenance as a lane AoE, when doomspike does the same thing, with only 40 less potency per hit, and hits immediately at a much faster rate. 1 geirskogul= 200 times X number of mobs, every 20-30 seconds. doomspike = 160 times same number of mobs, 5-8 times in the same time frame,it doesnt even compare. the Lane AoE factor is a handicap that holds geirskogul down in order to give it a place in a situation where there is no worth in using it.

[Arienal]

I can't help but wonder how exactly SE's combat development team tested out these rotation creations of theirs. Even taking into account the theoretical potential damage of this ability set, the practical application falls far short, none of the proposed set ups i have read so far would really work in endgame which have, historically, always been very mechanic heavy, and i find it unlikely to change. The issue i take isn't so much the numbers being put out, but the actually feasibility of using them.
Any ability set where you are punished because of things out of your control is flawed design, should a player make a mistake in the rotation that's one thing, but dropping potency to a third because of say, ground persistent AoE like in turn 10 or titan EX for example, where its not only dangerous but downright suicidal, is bad design.

[QCrimson]

but dropping potency to a third because of say, ground persistent AoE like in turn 10 or titan EX for example, where its not only dangerous but downright suicidal, is bad design.

I can't think of a single moment in Titan ex in which you can't land your positionals. Same goes for turn 10, except maybe when the boss is about to charge. Not saying those moments don't exist in other fights (T11, Ravana ex, ?) but the good thing about our rotation is that it's flexible. If you feel like using the 4th hit is too much of a hassle in certain situations then skip it. Your DPS won't be as good, but it should be good enough.

[Dervy]

Updated Damage Models + Preliminary Stat-Weights on OP.

Just waiting for Critical Hit Damage scaling factor and they'll be around 85-90% accurate.

[Craiger]

I can't get in-game at the moment, could anyone tell me what DPS difference we are talking about when holding off on using Geirskogul?

Everyone goes on about DRGs high DPS, but while I do understand what others have said about learning the fights and using Geirskogul carefully, that high DPS doesn't mean anything if you can't get up to that level in any fight.

There's a ton of fights in FCoB for example, where you could theoretically go on using Geirskogul 3 times a minute, but only if you're extremely lucky and don't get targeted by any mechanics at all... And I'm guessing it's normally a DPS gain to just trying to hold on to BoTD rather than risk losing it on mechanics.

NIN doesn't have things like this to worry about, and while MNK falls behind some on DPS, they have an advantage when there's dodging mechanics like that now.

So, to build on my question earlier(I hope I'm not offending anyone, cause I'm very thankful for insight and rotations people have submitted), in a raid like fight which isn't perfect for this tight DRG rotation, where do DRG sit in terms of DPS compared to other jobs?

I can't speak too much about NIN cause I haven't played them at that level, but while MNK have lower potential DPS, they can just pump out full DPS like they always have, and now they don't get as punished with mechanics as before. It's kinda how BLM has higher DPS than SMN, but in most scenarios SMN will be ahead.

I could be completely wrong, and that 200 potency attack might not do too much, I'm sorry then. Didn't really test it out myself.

[spelley]

snip

From what few reports/parses I've seen it seems like DRG is still putting up the highest numbers. My guess would be that DRG has the highest potential DPS if all 3 Geirksoguls can be fired off, but they are "balanced" for around 1-2 per minute.. All the DPS jobs have something that can "screw them" out of max DPS:

- NIN has the least combo downtime but they also have to deal with latency issues that greatly effect Mudras/their entire rotation.
- MNKs obviously have to deal with maintaining GL which is also effected by mechanics/jumps
- BLM are heavily dependent on positioning and minimizing movement
- SMN have to deal with jump phases as well because if they mistime a Tri-Disaster/long duration DoT just as a mob jumps, they lose a lot of damage and have to time their Trance usage.
- MCH and BRD have their own set of problems at the moment outside of their class, but movement now effects them similar to BLM in certain instances

[Dervy]

Over the course of 2 minutes (one full BotD cycle/ rotation reset), 1 GK is 0.3 PPS. There's 6 GK's in that time frame.