How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[enil]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell SE was thinking when they randomized positionals..its not bad enough that we have a VERY tight timer to even try to make this rotation work, now we barely have a clue as to where we even need to be standing. I know some people are able to pull great numbers with this on striking dummies but i am unable to see how any of this is at all even feasible on a high dodge or mechanic based fight, the timing is just too narrow for too little gain.

Except the timer isn't tight at all.
You have almost the whole GCD 2+ seconds to observe and react to something you are expecting. Even people with extreme slow reaction speeds (400-500ms+) have plenty of time to get into position and execute.

[Arienal]

Except the timer isn't tight at all.
You have almost the whole GCD 2+ seconds to observe and react to something you are expecting. Even people with extreme slow reaction speeds (400-500ms+) have plenty of time to get into position and execute.

I have yet to see a single mechanic that lasted less than 2-3 seconds. Any timer that falls apart because of handling mechanics in a mechanic heavy game is poorly designed as far as I am concerned. And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

[Jonnycbad]

I have yet to see a single mechanic that lasted less than 2-3 seconds. Any timer that falls apart because of handling mechanics in a mechanic heavy game is poorly designed as far as I am concerned. And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

Universal Manipulation
Ancient Flare
Eclipitic Meteor
Ravana jumping off screen for 20 seconds (avoidable if you know exactly when he's going to do it, I suppose)
Kraken's annoying tentacle stun for 3sec->grab+toss which is another 6-7 work of immobility.
T9's Meteors

I'm sure there are more but can't think of em right now. Some of these are old, true, but that doesn't mean new content won't have similar mechanics.

[Dervy]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell SE was thinking when they randomized positionals..its not bad enough that we have a VERY tight timer to even try to make this rotation work, now we barely have a clue as to where we even need to be standing. I know some people are able to pull great numbers with this on striking dummies but i am unable to see how any of this is at all even feasible on a high dodge or mechanic based fight, the timing is just too narrow for too little gain.

It's possible. You just need to practice forever. You'll eventually pick it up if you force yourself to learn and react quickly to mechanics.

And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

That's what GK is for ;D Blow BotD for Phase Transitions.

EDIT: Updated OP with my current Dragoon damage models for people to have a look at. I'm now working on explanations, as well as why I use the second opener listed in OP.

[Jonnycbad]

The positionals are not as bad as I thought they would be, but only when the mob isn't spinning or dashing across the room or knocking you back 10 miles....which happens pretty much all the time. I actually recind most of my complaints about our new abilities and I only want the following:

Buffs
-BoTD recast to 45 seconds instead of 60. This gives more slack for Invincibility phases or mechanics. An alternative would be to raise the cap of BoTR duration from 30 seconds to 45, so we can have a nice buffer. If you're using GK at 21 seconds whenever possible, that means you have 10-11 seconds on average to do your 4 hit combo which means if the mob runs away or you get knocked back, you are virtually guaranteed to lose BoTD. It's a very tight and unforgiving scenario.


- Increase base potency on Fang and Claw, and Wheeling Thrust from 100 -> 200. This way if you miss, you aren't penalized, similar to how a missed positional for Chaos Thrust is still 200 potency.

[QCrimson]

This way if you miss, you aren't penalized

I think you're missing the point somehow...

[AzureKoi]

Hey. Great job btw I found this to be very useful in figuring out how the 3.0 DRG works.

My question is, in the event that BotD falls off and there is still >30sec left on its cooldown, should I switch back to the 2.0 rotation until it's back up or just continue doing the rotation without the 4th hit and clip things early?
The difference is after reapplying HT after the first TTT, I can do another TTT:
So this is right when HT is first refreshed,
HT->TTT->P->IDC->TTT->HT->TTT->P-IDC
and BotD will be back up around here depending on variables such as dodging mechanics. I find that when I do this the rotation becomes
HT->TT[BotD]T4->P->IDC4

It's nothing too crazy I just need to adjust to HT and P being reversed.

This happens in Bismarck EX when I dont have BotD for the dragon adds after I popped it to burn the Carapace. I feel like clipping IDC and Ph early when they both have >12sec on their timers is a DPS loss but I could be wrong.

[spelley]

Snip

Without the 4th hits, our old rotation is what you'd want to do as that had the highest potency/buff uptime before we got the new abilities. Probably best to not think of it as a "rotation" at this point however but a priority system as you won't be maintaining the old rotation for long (as you'll want to use BotD after the next Vorpal Thrust/Disembowel after it goes off CD). So once it falls out, you should basically do this:

1) Finish whatever combo you started (assuming you are in middle of one)
2) <8 sec on HT? Repply (at less than 7-8s it will fall out before you finish another combo)
3) <8 sec on Disembowel/Chaos Thrust? CT Combo (Disembowel and CT ticks are more important than...)
4) <8 sec on Phleb? Reapply
5) Everything gonna up? TTT.

Hopefully you'll be back to doing BotD after you do a round of repplying. If not, after each 1-2-3 combo, check the priority list and react accordingly. At least that's what I'd do.

[Craiger]

I have played MNK as main up until now, but got bored with the new abilities after playing on it at 60, so now I've just leveled my DRG to 60, and I've tried out the rotation that has been thrown around as the "official" rotation (kinda).

My question is now (already), what would be the best realistic rotation to use in raids? That rotation works well on a dummy and all, but I literally use the 4th combo skill just as BoTD is about to fall off... We're talking about milliseconds here. That won't work most of the time. It will only work in fights where you know 100% there won't be anything you have to dodge that will stop you from spamming skills, and there usually is some random target thing or something in fights.

You're also using BoTD during the rotation for it not to fall off, but I feel this would be a bad choice in many cases, since if you lose it because of some mechanic, you then have to wait for it to come off CD again.

Greased Lightning was the whole challenge with MNK, to keep it up while dodging mechanics etc. But you still have plenty of time to reapply it if you continuously hit the target... That DRG rotation pretty much is like how MNKs opener was in 2.X, where you had almost no space left to reapply GL after using Perfect Balance, only this is all the time.

SE must have intended for us to use a different rotation, where you use less Geirskogul, cause this just won't do it. SE have said before that they didn't intend for some rotations that people found out, and then changed things based on the new rotation... So maybe they change the time on BoTD or reduce the amount Geirskogul consumes, but one thing is for sure, this rotation won't work realistically.

[Dervy]

My question is now (already), what would be the best realistic rotation to use in raids? That rotation works well on a dummy and all, but I literally use the 4th combo skill just as BoTD is about to fall off... We're talking about milliseconds here. That won't work most of the time. It will only work in fights where you know 100% there won't be anything you have to dodge that will stop you from spamming skills, and there usually is some random target thing or something in fights.

There is no "Realistic" rotation for raids. There never has been for any Job (well, I guess Bard and BLM....) You can never go 1-2-3-4 in any Raid Encounter. There's always some mechanic you need to handle where you need to use your knowledge of skills and capitalise on it for maximum up time. There's parts where it's best to go H - ID - DI - TTT, there's parts where just doing TTT is best.

The same is said about the 3.0, but on a much grand scale. There is no best rotation. For Bismarck + Ravana EX, you do something differently all the time to handle the mechanics. Oh you got Prelude to Liberation? H - DI - ID - TTT. You've got Pillars of Heaven? H - P (Knock-back) - IDC4. This phase lasts 20s? I'll save BotD for the next phase.

I've got BotD timer ticking good, BotD is coming up soon, but there's a phase transition in the next 15 seconds? Hold BotD cooldown for the next phase.

About to enter Phase Transition? Blow GK

I'm now dealing with adds which die in 4 GCDs? TTT4 spam!

Oh, there's a mechanic where I'm going to be knocked-back and unable to use GK as my BotD will fall of? Hold GK until you've hit your next 4th Combo where it's safe again.

You're also using BoTD during the rotation for it not to fall off, but I feel this would be a bad choice in many cases, since if you lose it because of some mechanic, you then have to wait for it to come off CD again.

This is rarely the case if you're not throwing GK's like a wild man and anticipate the raid Mechanics.