How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[seekified]

Personally I wouldn't do Phletomize first simply because it leaves you with more seconds inbetween each BotD renewal. It increases the chance of ending up having to choose between dropping BotD or HT/Ph, or so it seems to me anyhow.

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

I also wanted to ask about something mentioned in the guide. It explicitly says that "H-IDC4-P-TTT4 is superior to H-P-IDC4-TTT4". I'm the type who would much rather have the simplicity of the buff and dot with the same duration cast right after one-another. Although the guide says that oGCDs are the reason, I can't see why after having spent a good amount of the day at a dummy. Can someone explain why HT and Phleb should be split up? Many thanks in advance.

You always want to apply your buffs/debuffs and higher potency moves first to maximize your damage. Applying the piercing debuff from disembowel earlier means your auto-attacks, weaponskills, and abilities will be doing more damage sooner in the fight. Chaos thrust also gives you 190 more potency than phlebotomize. So applying it sooner means that the enemy will be taking that extra 190 potency sooner in the fight and more frequently.

[Dervy]

On top of what has been said, a much simpler explanation. You're having to weave 4 Buffs into one GCD. Blood for Blood, Battle Litany, Internal Release and Draconian-Potion. It's impossible to do this without heavy clipping. This is still a WIP for the guide, explaining why HP ICD4 is worse:



Look at the amount of skills which aren't buffed our 4th Combo in the end. On top of that, due to the forced Drac-Pot placement, Phlebotomize isn't being buffed either. You'll want Full Thrust over Phlebotomize as it's 10 Potency Higher.

H P IDC4 has 1835Potency * 105 STR (Pot on ID)

H P IDC4 has 2045 * 105 STR (Pot on DI)

H IDC4 P has 2105Potency * 105 STR

You could also use the Drac-Pot on H IDC4 P before Chaos Thrust, like the "Advanced" opener in the thread OP, giving you an additional 70 Potency (WT > DI)

And not only that, as IR + BL aren't buffing your Wheeling Thrust, that's around (1+0.5*25%)= 1.13% of damage that you could potentially be missing out on.

[Arienal]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell SE was thinking when they randomized positionals..its not bad enough that we have a VERY tight timer to even try to make this rotation work, now we barely have a clue as to where we even need to be standing. I know some people are able to pull great numbers with this on striking dummies but i am unable to see how any of this is at all even feasible on a high dodge or mechanic based fight, the timing is just too narrow for too little gain.

[enil]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell SE was thinking when they randomized positionals..its not bad enough that we have a VERY tight timer to even try to make this rotation work, now we barely have a clue as to where we even need to be standing. I know some people are able to pull great numbers with this on striking dummies but i am unable to see how any of this is at all even feasible on a high dodge or mechanic based fight, the timing is just too narrow for too little gain.

Except the timer isn't tight at all.
You have almost the whole GCD 2+ seconds to observe and react to something you are expecting. Even people with extreme slow reaction speeds (400-500ms+) have plenty of time to get into position and execute.

[Arienal]

Except the timer isn't tight at all.
You have almost the whole GCD 2+ seconds to observe and react to something you are expecting. Even people with extreme slow reaction speeds (400-500ms+) have plenty of time to get into position and execute.

I have yet to see a single mechanic that lasted less than 2-3 seconds. Any timer that falls apart because of handling mechanics in a mechanic heavy game is poorly designed as far as I am concerned. And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

[Dervy]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell SE was thinking when they randomized positionals..its not bad enough that we have a VERY tight timer to even try to make this rotation work, now we barely have a clue as to where we even need to be standing. I know some people are able to pull great numbers with this on striking dummies but i am unable to see how any of this is at all even feasible on a high dodge or mechanic based fight, the timing is just too narrow for too little gain.

It's possible. You just need to practice forever. You'll eventually pick it up if you force yourself to learn and react quickly to mechanics.

And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

That's what GK is for ;D Blow BotD for Phase Transitions.

EDIT: Updated OP with my current Dragoon damage models for people to have a look at. I'm now working on explanations, as well as why I use the second opener listed in OP.

[Jonnycbad]

The positionals are not as bad as I thought they would be, but only when the mob isn't spinning or dashing across the room or knocking you back 10 miles....which happens pretty much all the time. I actually recind most of my complaints about our new abilities and I only want the following:

Buffs
-BoTD recast to 45 seconds instead of 60. This gives more slack for Invincibility phases or mechanics. An alternative would be to raise the cap of BoTR duration from 30 seconds to 45, so we can have a nice buffer. If you're using GK at 21 seconds whenever possible, that means you have 10-11 seconds on average to do your 4 hit combo which means if the mob runs away or you get knocked back, you are virtually guaranteed to lose BoTD. It's a very tight and unforgiving scenario.


- Increase base potency on Fang and Claw, and Wheeling Thrust from 100 -> 200. This way if you miss, you aren't penalized, similar to how a missed positional for Chaos Thrust is still 200 potency.

[Jonnycbad]

I have yet to see a single mechanic that lasted less than 2-3 seconds. Any timer that falls apart because of handling mechanics in a mechanic heavy game is poorly designed as far as I am concerned. And you are just out of luck any time a boss becomes untargetable such as titan or leviathan to give some examples.

Universal Manipulation
Ancient Flare
Eclipitic Meteor
Ravana jumping off screen for 20 seconds (avoidable if you know exactly when he's going to do it, I suppose)
Kraken's annoying tentacle stun for 3sec->grab+toss which is another 6-7 work of immobility.
T9's Meteors

I'm sure there are more but can't think of em right now. Some of these are old, true, but that doesn't mean new content won't have similar mechanics.

[AzureKoi]

Hey. Great job btw I found this to be very useful in figuring out how the 3.0 DRG works.

My question is, in the event that BotD falls off and there is still >30sec left on its cooldown, should I switch back to the 2.0 rotation until it's back up or just continue doing the rotation without the 4th hit and clip things early?
The difference is after reapplying HT after the first TTT, I can do another TTT:
So this is right when HT is first refreshed,
HT->TTT->P->IDC->TTT->HT->TTT->P-IDC
and BotD will be back up around here depending on variables such as dodging mechanics. I find that when I do this the rotation becomes
HT->TT[BotD]T4->P->IDC4

It's nothing too crazy I just need to adjust to HT and P being reversed.

This happens in Bismarck EX when I dont have BotD for the dragon adds after I popped it to burn the Carapace. I feel like clipping IDC and Ph early when they both have >12sec on their timers is a DPS loss but I could be wrong.