Shortage of tanks a myth - thoughts?

[Zaft]

As a main tank myself i admit to avoiding DF unless grouped with people i know.

Yeah, that's the thing. If I queue up with randoms, the chances are high that I'll get a bunch of windowlickers who can't pull even 300 DPS. Like, it's one thing if you're undergeared (we've ALL been there, it's not a big deal). But i130 people who do 125 DPS make me physically ill.

[Zfz]

Things that I've heard in my FC putting people off tanking in the DF:

• Don't feel confident doing large pulls (two healers said this, too). So they always queue with FC people or go on their DPS jobs.
• Can't hold aggro against Zeta-wielding DPS with their Soldiery 110.
• Don't really remember the routes.
• Fear of messing up.

What we can do to make it easier on them during their learning phase, which could eventually result in a confident and skilled tank joining the tanking population:

• When the tank messes up, instead of staying silent, drop a line "don't mind". To let the tank know it's alright.
• When you overtaunt, drop a "sorry about that" to let the tank know you're not secretly laughing at the tank for losing the target.
• When the tank don't remember the route, lead.

Silence often cause people to think towards the bad side. Simple feedback can serve as valuable encouragement.

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In before the "lol grow thick skin" replies: the world is full of sensitive people. It is a fact. The solution is not to deny their existence or somehow fantasize that your reply will change their personality (if you do then, well, ignorance is a bliss). The solution is to try and accommodate them. If you don't want to do that, then you might as well not reply because you are adding to the problem, not trying to solve it.

[MirielleLavandre]

Going off of what Zfz said, yep - I'm kind of a sensitive person, but I also like to help out the group as much as I can, and protect them if I can. That is why I leveled PLD before my current main WHM. However, as many have said, it is often the party itself that is more difficult to deal with than the actual monsters ^_^v Communication is key, and yep - I think trying to help newer tanks to build some confidence instead of tear them down would do tons to help create a better environment to foster more DF tanks. This, and also, coming from my NIN and BRD, all dps need to remember that there is such a thing as an aggro bar that you always see on whatever mob you're targeted on (well...BLM and other AoE types may need to switch through mobs to see it on all) -- manage your hate...it shows you're a good player and working as a team instead of a 'OMG I must do all the DMG!!!' while ignoring a newer tank having aggro issues ^^

[SpiritMuse]

all dps need to remember that there is such a thing as an aggro bar that you always see on whatever mob you're targeted on (well...BLM and other AoE types may need to switch through mobs to see it on all) -- manage your hate...it shows you're a good player and working as a team instead of a 'OMG I must do all the DMG!!!' while ignoring a newer tank having aggro issues ^^

This. This is like rule 1 of being a good dps. Well, actually, rule 1 is "Don't stand in the fire", but rule 2 is "Don't pull off the tank". Having started as a BLM I know this very well - keep an eye on the aggro meters and if you're about to pull then either curb your dps or switch targets. Simple. In AoE you can get an idea by keeping track of the enemy list, it's less accurate but you can see all at once.

[Meleoffs]

I think definitely that the game would benefit from players in DF treating their tanks with more respect and NOT expect perfection or speed runs every time.

It's jerkwads who yell at the tanks and tell them off about not playing the way they want them to (usually demanding pulls of every monster in the dungeon, then getting mad when the tank dies) that have ruined people willing to sign up with random folks.

This is pretty much exactly the reason I quit tanking for people in DF. People seem to think they know more about what a tank is capable than the actual tank. Last time I used my tank in DF the healer said I should pull smaller because I couldn't handle big pulls. He proceeded to bitch about my fully melded 110 crafted gear calling it shitty greens and that I was better off with i120 IW gear. Aside from the almost negligible defense increase I had been speed pulling that dungeon (snowcloak) for 3 hours beforehand trying to get my zodiac drop.

To be clear: I'm not bitching about not being able to handle it, just tired of how ignorant some people can be. It's easier to get through a dungeon as a DPS quickly or without trouble than it is a tank. One of my static members got kicked from a group solely for having sword oath on.

[Mhikail]

In before the "lol grow think skin" replies: the world is full of sensitive people. It is a fact. The solution is not to deny their existence or somehow fantasize that your reply will change their personality (if you do then, well, ignorance is a bliss). The solution is to try and accommodate them. If you don't want to do that, then you might as well not reply because you are adding to the problem, not trying to solve it.

So much this. I'm very sensitive.
I think everyone needs to treat everyone with respect no matter the job.

DPS: Don't get sad when the DPS isn't pushing out 100000DPS because they are under geared.
Heal: Don't get pissed when they can't heal you in big mobs. Respect them if they CAN'T heal big mobs.
Tank: Don't get upset when they can't hold aggro a lot because you're BiS and they aren't just yet.

IMO: Tanking is incredibly stressful for me. It's easier for me as a WAR albeit level 40 but I get to nervous and scared I sometimes spam my Provoke Macro because I panic like crazy.
You have the entire party in your hands. You and the healer are like bff's both stressed to hell. xD I'm also scared of playing 'Tank Wars' in WoD.
Dx

[Castrau]

I am terrified of tanking because of stuff like this tank abuse. I'm slowly trying it, but only if I have a party at least 3/4 of people I know (including myself). As a ninja gone scholar, if a DPS isn't doing their job, I'll catch on, and maybe try to suggest that the bard doesn't try to steal agro. If a DPS is being ridiculously rude to another party member, I use my healer authority to have them stop (mainly let them take a bunch of damage, or in some cases, if they really aren't helping the group, just let them die). But if I enter as a DPS, I feel like I have no right to stop anyone besides the other DPS unless they're crossing some serious lines. As a tank, I don't have the same confidence as I heal, and I'm right around that "slightly lower than DPS" status of right to complain, because most of the time, I won't know exactly what I'm doing. Trust me, if the tank abuse dies down, maybe I'll try it. But I'm not going to df tank until I don't feel terrified of it.

[Kitria]

I am SO SO sorry to the tanks this is happening to.

I've leveled both Warrior and Paladin to 50 and run Coil/Experts as a tank (mainly Warrior) and have never received the kind of straight up abuse you guys are talking about. The only time anyone has even slightly talked about my tanking (excluding positive stuff) was someone telling me when I first started tanking I must have used to play WoW because of my particular style. Or if I've run Coil and screwed up a mechanic I'll say straight away I messed up and we all laugh about it. That is entirely it.

Is it anything to do with understanding the class? Have I just been incredibly lucky or something? Are you guys just a vocal minority?

I don't know. But even if you're still learning the class you shouldn't be getting treated like this and I'm so sorry you are. Maybe try practicing with some friends before going into DF if you think that will help? And make sure to read over all your abilities and take note of what you would use in what situation before going in.

It really pains me to hear this is happening because even though I've heard of it, I didn't realize it was this prevalent.

[Ashkendor]

It's not about being epeen, its about having to run a dungeon 60 times to get a drop and not wanting to effectively double or triple the amount of time the dungeon takes, and don't talk pf cause I have tried, you cannot form a pf pt for zodiac drop runs. No one wants to join.

Simple solution: queue as a tank. You get damn near instant queues and you can pull the dungeon however your little heart desires as long as your healer can keep you standing. Not willing to do that? Suck it up. That crappy DF tank that's wearing myth gear and pulls 3 mobs at a time is the only reason you're actually in the dungeon instead of twiddling your thumbs. :3

Do I think that dungeons should be speed pulled as long as everyone's geared for it? Sure. I'm always up for a good speed run no matter what role I'm in. Enough people are uncomfortable with it for various reasons that it's just not gonna happen, though. Getting people to do things outside of their comfort zone in Duty Finder is like trying to squeeze water from a stone. I've done enough Zodiac grinding over the course of completing four relics to realize that it's so much easier if you just shrug and go with the flow. Enjoy the good parties you get rather than expecting every single run to be that way.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

If you can't take the fire get out of the heat. Tanking isn't for everyone and its not meant to be an easy role. You are expected to adapt quickly if your new and learn the zone quickly and watch the bosses and learn strategies quicker then everyone else, be better geared then everyone else and hold aggro even if you don't have good weapons like everyone else. No ifs-ands-or-butts.

This is how its been like since early everquest. It has been like this for almost two generations.