Shortage of tanks a myth - thoughts?

[AriaEnia]

I've been fine so far being a tank and do everything with PUGs. Never been harassed whatsoever (yet). I agree, those dpses don't feel comfortable unless it's a speed run. What's irritating me is even when they're undergeared and incapable of killing mobs fast, they keep pushing me to mass pull everything, especially those bards, always bards are like that, I dunno why.

[KisaiTenshi]

When I go DF as DPS, I get bad tanks. When I go DF as a tank, I get bad DPS. This is the usual, but ever so rarely I'll get good versions of both. I can hope when DRK comes out I'll like it enough to use it as a main and just block out everything else in DF.

When I DF as DPS, I have to wait 3 to 10 times as long, and when the party has incompetent tanks or healers, I go "NOPE" and go back to queuing as healer again after.

When I queue as healer, at least the healing portion is something I know and can even deal with incompetent co-healers. But 1 in 10 runs results in a wipe somewhere that it shouldn't (eg the first pull in any dungeon) due to the tank trying to speedrun without any idea where everyone is. Then it's usually the tank who is rude.

As Kosmos has stated earlier, the shortage of tanks (and healers) is both real and imagined.

The real part is that there are a lack of players willing to step into the role as tank (and/or healer). And I count myself among those numbers, mostly due to that I have zero desire to have to deal with lippy brats.

The trolls are real. As a tank or healer, why should you waste time with DPS being jerks. But it's also unfair to the DPS who weren't being jerks, and were doing their job.

The commendation system is hence broken. It should present a slightly larger form after you exit the instance (before allowing another DF run) with:

In your last Duty Finder group, rate the following (hitting cancel will rate everyone average):

- The speed of play was
a) Average
b) Too fast
c) Too slow

(tank name) did X% of the damage and held threat Y% of the time
a) This tank's job was average
b) This tank's job was above average
c) This tank's job was below average
d) This tank was avoiding doing their job

(repeat if 2 tanks)

(healer name) did healed X%, overhealed by Y%, and DPS'd for %Z
a) This healer's job was average
b) This healer's job was above average
c) This healer's job was below average
d) This healer was avoiding doing their job

(repeat if 2 healers)

(DPS name) did did X% of total DPS damage and Y% support, and carried threat for Z% of the time
a) This DPS' job was average
b) This DPS' job was above average
c) This DPS' job was below average
d) This DPS was avoiding doing their job

(repeat for each DPS)

Overall would you play with these players again?
a) Yes
b) No

Replacement players (eg someone disconnected or had to leave) would not be evaluated if they joined after the boss room was locked.

Abandoning or exiting an instance, would automatically give the player a "was avoiding their job" rating. Being kicked would automatically give the kicked player a "was avoiding their job" for AFK.

It's not perfect, but currently doing anything inside the instance would take too much time, and the loot mechanics are the only thing that prevents some players from being kicked.

And when matching players in the future, prioritize players who play well together. Players that are consistently marked "was avoiding doing their job" (eg being carried, locked out on purpose, letting co-healer or co-tank do everything) would be barred from playing that role in those dungeon instances again until they improve on easier content.

Like even without the report card above, just having a way to signal to the DF matching system that a player is abusive, don't match them with me again would quickly make players be nicer and stop trolling otherwise they will be locked out of rewarding content.

[dekal]

Why do people say tank this and dps that. Those tanks AND dps that behave as jerks or unkind is a PERSON. I am sure that person play not just as a tank or dps. I encountered a player/person in 2 DF. He decided to switch roles from dps to healer cuz he couldnt handle the bad things he was getting for that pt.

Instead that player became rude in the other pt. He shpuld have show hat bravery with the prior pt. He was a coward.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

As a main tank myself i admit to avoiding DF unless grouped with people i know.

Same, I prefer to heal in DF, I have less responsability and faster queue times than DPS. That's the reason I commendate the tank most of the time, because that person was brave enough to get in DF with some random people. I used to tank in DF a lot, and even if it went... well? maybe? I ended up discussing with a lot of people. To avoid such stress: Healer. I DPS the thingies, I heal the tank, I raise the DRG, everything is fine. I do my thing and the tank controlls the flow of the time as I just sit back and relax.

Sometimes I feel the tanks develop a cocky attitude as a defensive response against people in DF. D:

[Eidolon]

The commendation system is hence broken. It should present a slightly larger form after you exit the instance (before allowing another DF run) with:

In your last Duty Finder group, rate the following (hitting cancel will rate everyone average):

- The speed of play was
a) Average
b) Too fast
c) Too slow

(tank name) did X% of the damage and held threat Y% of the time
a) This tank's job was average
b) This tank's job was above average
c) This tank's job was below average
d) This tank was avoiding doing their job

(repeat if 2 tanks)

(healer name) did healed X%, overhealed by Y%, and DPS'd for %Z
a) This healer's job was average
b) This healer's job was above average
c) This healer's job was below average
d) This healer was avoiding doing their job

(repeat if 2 healers)

(DPS name) did did X% of total DPS damage and Y% support, and carried threat for Z% of the time
a) This DPS' job was average
b) This DPS' job was above average
c) This DPS' job was below average
d) This DPS was avoiding doing their job

(repeat for each DPS)

Overall would you play with these players again?
a) Yes
b) No

To be fair, if SE tried to pop this survey on me every time, I would just mark everyone as the lowest possible score every time. I hate forced surveys.

[KaedrianLiang]

As someone who plays all 3 roles to a competent degree, Tank is the simplest role. My 2 cents on the situation is that, DPS is "more fun," and the general game populace can't handle the pressure of being a tank.

Tank role is very delicate, a tank error often lead to a wipe, whether its forgetting to count stacks, repositioning/placement or not getting a CD off. These lead to wipes right off the bat. However tank management is very simple, and often a tank can focus on their task without having to think about the party. Threat management is very easy in ffxiv. Simple, but little room for error

Healers have the most complex role in the game. Often healers are expected to dodge, add dps, manage debuffs, manage mana, watch for 1-shot attacks winding-up while healing and constantly looking back and forth between the action and party health bars. However there is plenty of leeway for healing errors.

DPS, know your rotation, know how to dodge, know target priority, know when to LB. Threat management is non-existent after the first 7.5 seconds into an encounter. However a dps death is medium-high on wipe factor as DPS checks are always a thing, and raising anyone costs a huge chunk of mana. Medium room for error.


In the ole XI days, tanks were generally loved, especially while leveling up. It was an untold rule that a tank bears the burden of death to save the party when things go terribly wrong. "Good tanks" were the talk of the town whenever they showed up to a scene or made their presence known.

In XIV, when tanks are blamed, much of the time its a dps that can't assist tank target. They are unjustly kicked or harassed for the rest of the dungeon/raid/trial run. Tanks set the tempo of battle, not the dps, but often dps (sometimes healers) feel the need to pull extra mobs so they can aoe stuff, down and in the end blame the tank for not picking up the adds. The list is endless. So its a crap situation, of illogical blame game.

[nuyu11]

Snip.

Agreed... most of my friends have tank class lvl 50, but not all of them have healer lvl 50 (T_T)
Some of them are lazy to DF as a Tank not because lack of respect or what, it's just they're lazy to do it so.
I never met any disrespectful actions towards any other member in Masamune during dungeons or raid.
If things goes wrong we just vote abandon, no drama at all and less talking just do our own job.

I'm not sure about the NA/EU culture, but from all the post that I have read things kinda different I think.

[Darkobra]

It's not about being epeen, its about having to run a dungeon 60 times to get a drop and not wanting to effectively double or triple the amount of time the dungeon takes, and don't talk pf cause I have tried

That is genuinely your own fault for joining a random pug and expecting quality. If you were good, you'd be recognised and have people willing to help you as they'll help you in return. Seriously. It is all on you. Now you can do your duty finders, pray you find another person doing duty finders that will recognise you enough to take you in or you can join parties in the party finder, find a decent free company, be helpful and be helped.

If you join randoms, don't whine when you get random. If you don't talk to your party, don't whine when it's not organised. Everything that can go wrong in a party is entirely on you to organise it. If you can't, you're at the exact spot in life you belong in.

Enjoy your pugs.

[Noshpan]

The trolls are real. As a tank or healer, why should you waste time with DPS being jerks. But it's also unfair to the DPS who weren't being jerks, and were doing their job.

Speaking of trolling, had a healer in my Labyrinth alliance that refused to participate. When everyone in the party & other alliances started calling them out on it, the healer resorted to calling everyone "fags". Luckily he was quickly replaced after the Atomos fight. (Yes, I am quite aware that the Crystal Tower raids, and Atomos in particular, are prime fights that trolling occurs.)

[Fluffya]

I would say that low level roulette may be responsible of most of those problems. New tanks enter it to learn but those dungeons are so easy for synched lvl50 that any of them can tank it.

If its not a bard decide to pull every mobs one by one (darn, the tank provoke it back, i will pull that other one while he build back aggro on it) its the whitemage who spam medica (hey, i can both tank and heal everyone )
So they end up running everywhere and basicly learn nothing.

After a few of those tiring experiences, they just end up grinding Fates in Coerthas while ppl are complaining that no tanks are in DF or the tanks there dont know what they are doing.