Colour Me Blue - Blue Mage

[m3eansean]

This is one of the most boring things about the game. No support, no hybrids.

Intentional design decision. This is a vertical progression, theme-park MMO. People's ideas of BLU are all coming from a sandbox MMO, FFXI. Which are entirely incompatible with each other.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Don't think we'll be seeing blu any time soon and if we ever do won't be until they further extend skills that other jobs have, so the number of skills we can learn grow. If we do get it back, maybe the blue domino masks will make a return that were present in 5.

I think it would be a rather easy job to implement, mainly coz all the abilities already exist for the monsters so SE would not have to spend time making new ones, unlike every other potential new job. It is true though that a lot of BLU's potential abilities would have to be cut, however every job has had this treatment so I don't think it's a reason not to implement it as a new job.

Intentional design decision. This is a vertical progression, theme-park MMO. People's ideas of BLU are all coming from a sandbox MMO, FFXI. Which are entirely incompatible with each other.

Well as I have said before, this might not always be the case. Yoshi has spoke of a potential Hybrid role being implemented at somepoint, of course there is a chance he will abandon this idea. But never say never.

[Seku]

I think it would be a rather easy job to implement, mainly coz all the abilities already exist for the monsters so SE would not have to spend time making new ones, unlike every other potential new job. It is true though that a lot of BLU's potential abilities would have to be cut, however every job has had this treatment so I don't think it's a reason not to implement it as a new job..

Yeah. Yet again, the amount of skills players get at the moment would be limited for a BLU, unless you're ok with them simply using blue magic and have nothing else, which would kind of betray it since BLU's in almost every incarnation, if not every, have used swords. Meaning their Skills would have to be split between magic and weapon skills, something that currently only PLD does.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Yeah. Yet again, the amount of skills players get at the moment would be limited for a BLU, unless you're ok with them simply using blue magic and have nothing else, which would kind of betray it since BLU's in almost every incarnation, if not every, have used swords. Meaning their Skills would have to be split between magic and weapon skills, something that currently only PLD does.

This is true, though RDM would have the same issue as that too uses a blade. Both would need to have blade skills to accompany their magic abilities, so I think you are right that we won't see BLU implemented for some time, likewise for RDM. But I think ultimately we will see both.

However FFXI's BLU wielded dual daggers. So in theory Rogue could be a great base class for BLU. Instead of learning Mudras as NIN, it would learn Blue Magic as BLU. Perhaps Blue Magic could even work similar to the Mudra, by combining different monster soul states to cast a specific monster ability. So for example, Golem Soul + Bomb Soul = Mighty Guard. So by using a combo system, it would allow SE to give BLU a wider rage of monster abilities as combo variants.

I guess the only real danger with this though, is will it be too much like NIN? A combo system is fine but the monster abilities that cast from that will need to be different enough so it's not treading on the toe's of NIN. But it could be possible.

[Kaizencorr]

I like the idea of having RDM and BLU launch at the same time. And the best place that I can think for that to happen would be when we eventually explore Ala Migho. The people of Ala Migho seem like the perfect fit for both classes. The tragic nature of losing their home would aid in the savagery that could be the basis for using monster skills to get by on the BLU side. And we literally see Ilberd cast magic on his sword before swiping at Raubahn very similar to the En-spells quite a few people seem to be in favor of for RDM.

Two rival tribes of Ala Mighan warriors teaching their arts of survival to the warrior of light to aid in retaking their region.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I like the idea of having RDM and BLU launch at the same time. And the best place that I can think for that to happen would be when we eventually explore Ala Migho. The people of Ala Migho seem like the perfect fit for both classes. The tragic nature of losing their home would aid in the savagery that could be the basis for using monster skills to get by on the BLU side. And we literally see Ilberd cast magic on his sword before swiping at Raubahn very similar to the En-spells quite a few people seem to be in favor of for RDM.

Two rival tribes of Ala Mighan warriors teaching their arts of survival to the warrior of light to aid in retaking their region.

Well I think there is a good chance a future expansion could very well be centered around Ala Mhigo and I think this would be a great story arc. The once proud Ala Mhigan empire laid waste by Garlean forces. The survivors forced to flee. Some to the South and some to the West (as the lore states) giving birth to two rival Ala Mhigan factions. The Red Mages and the Blue Mages.

The rivalry could stem from the Garlean occupation. Where one group believed it was best to accept the occupation and Garlean rule in order to keep the city alive. Where as the other group could have fought for the rebel forces trying to suppress the occupation. Of course we already know Ala Mhigo falls. But this would explain why the survivors split, due to their beliefs and blame for the fall of Ala Mhigo.

This could then help forge a unique image for both groups. One group who accepted the Garlean rule could use crude Garlean like technology (Red Mages). Where as the other group who made up the rebel forces hold up the old traditions of Ala Mhigo (Blue Mages). SE could easily add the foundations for such a story arc in the subsequent 3.0 patches. By having Lolorito enlist the aid of one of these groups during the Ul'dah uprising and assassination of the Sultana.

They could even add a new Faction PvP game mode, a kind of "Red Vs Blue" which could be rather cool and help build on the image of rival mage groups.

[Tharian]

I will be very interested to see how the dev team tackles BLU in the future. I also wonder how the rest of you feel BLU should be implemented.

Why does Blue Mage need to be in this game? Blue Mage has only appeared in the following Final Fantasy Games:

Final Fantasy 5 through 11 (including X-2)... I won't count the spin-off games as they aren't truly Final Fantasy Games.

It did not appear in Final Fantasy 1-4, Final Fantasy 12, Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy XIII-2 or Lightning Returns (yes there was a Blue Mage garb in that game but it didn't bestow any of the associated abilities).

Thus I am fairly confident when I say that the Blue Mage is not a staple of the Final Fantasy franchise the way that Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, and Red Mage are (all six of which have been a part of Final Fantasy since the very first game).

[SoloWingMetatron]

Why does Blue Mage need to be in this game? Blue Mage has only appeared in the following Final Fantasy Games:

Final Fantasy 5 through 11 (including X-2)... I won't count the spin-off games as they aren't truly Final Fantasy Games.

It did not appear in Final Fantasy 1-4, Final Fantasy 12, Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy XIII-2 or Lightning Returns (yes there was a Blue Mage garb in that game but it didn't bestow any of the associated abilities).

Thus I am fairly confident when I say that the Blue Mage is not a staple of the Final Fantasy franchise the way that Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, and Red Mage are (all six of which have been a part of Final Fantasy since the very first game).

That is totally irrelevant. An introduction of a new possible job is not weighted on how many times it has appeared in an FF (or your knowledge of FF history for that matter)....if we were going by that argument then we would never have seen SMN implemented. Since SMN has appeared as a specific job just as much as BLU...just saying. BLU has appeared in about 8 of the main FF titles (if we are not including spin offs) That means it had appeared in just over half of all FF main titles, which is actually a rather large ratio and actually solidifies it as a bona fide FF job.

Furthermore RDM only appears in the main series FF's 9 times, only once more than BLU. I would also like to bring up SAM, which was a strong contender to be implemented instead of DRK for HW. However SAM has only appeared about 6 times in main series FF's....so that's all the proof you need that jobs being implemented has nothing to do with how many times they appeared.

Oh and speaking of the new HW job's. Astrologian is a unique job to FFXIV and has never before appeared in any other FF. So by your logic it shouldn't even exist lol.

[Tharian]

I never said it was weighted on how many times it appeared in Final Fantasy history. What I asked was why you felt it was necessary for this game to feature Blue Mage in the first place? I then provided justification for why I felt it wasn't necessary. No where did I say that the justification was a reasonable justification one way or the other for whether or not the Dev's will in fact include the class into the game.

Also, Blue Mage as a distinct Job has appeared in quite a few less than 8 Final Fantasy titles. This is because in Final Fantasy VII there were no distinct Jobs, only Materia that granted abilities that resembled those jobs, and because in Final Fantasy X the Blue Mage abilities were on the same character that had the abilities of the Dragoon as well, meaning that it was more of a hybrid job in that game. And if we actually count the games out, there are 9 games (not counting spin-offs) that the Blue Mage did not appear in; that means there is exactly one more game without the Blue Mage, than there are games with the Blue Mage. I am counting direct sequels as part of the main Final Fantasy series instead of treating them as spin-offs, so that means Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy XIII-2, and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII all count as part of the main series for this discussion.

Regarding Astrologian being unique... that is in fact false. While it has indeed never appeared in the main Final Fantasy games before, nor has it ever appeared under the name "Astrologian" before, the Astrologian has in fact appeared in the Final Fantasy Franchise before. In 1997, a few months after the release of Final Fantasy VII the game Final Fantasy Tactics was released in Japan. One of the classes available in Final Fantasy Tactics was the Astrologer class; granted this was a unique class available only to the character by the name of Orran... but the class did exist previously, though it had a totally different set of abilities than the Astrologian is likely to have.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I never said it was weighted on how many times it appeared in Final Fantasy history. What I asked was why you felt it was necessary for this game to feature Blue Mage in the first place? I then provided justification for why I felt it wasn't necessary. No where did I say that the justification was a reasonable justification one way or the other for whether or not the Dev's will in fact include the class into the game.

Also, Blue Mage as a distinct Job has appeared in quite a few less than 8 Final Fantasy titles. This is because in Final Fantasy VII there were no distinct Jobs, only Materia that granted abilities that resembled those jobs, and because in Final Fantasy X the Blue Mage abilities were on the same character that had the abilities of the Dragoon as well, meaning that it was more of a hybrid job in that game. And if we actually count the games out, there are 9 games (not counting spin-offs) that the Blue Mage did not appear in; that means there is exactly one more game without the Blue Mage, than there are games with the Blue Mage. I am counting direct sequels as part of the main Final Fantasy series instead of treating them as spin-offs, so that means Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy XIII-2, and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII all count as part of the main series for this discussion.

Regarding Astrologian being unique... that is in fact false. While it has indeed never appeared in the main Final Fantasy games before, nor has it ever appeared under the name "Astrologian" before, the Astrologian has in fact appeared in the Final Fantasy Franchise before. In 1997, a few months after the release of Final Fantasy VII the game Final Fantasy Tactics was released in Japan. One of the classes available in Final Fantasy Tactics was the Astrologer class; granted this was a unique class available only to the character by the name of Orran... but the class did exist previously, though it had a totally different set of abilities than the Astrologian is likely to have.

Please don't argue semantics with me just for the sake of it....I did not include Tactics coz you yourself said you did not want to include spinoffs, therefore I did not. Don't start moving the goalpost now in an attempt to one up me on an argument of semantics that have no bearing on the actual topic. It is an unnecessary tangent.

You are right about BLU as a specific job being in less titles though, it was more like 6 (like SAM) But as I said before job implementation has no bearing on how many times it was featured in an FF, so pointing that out is totally irrelevant, other than you can recall FF history a little better....but that means nothing. Again semantics.

This is semantics again, but the only comparison of Astrologian and Astrologer is the similar name. The job itself is totally unique and there is no evidence to say one way or the other whether the Astrologian is even based off of Astrologer...it's just a name, nothing more and still proves the point that a job can feature in FFXIV without it being in a multitude of other FF's. Otherwise why would go onto that topic of FF job history in the first place? And even go as far to say "Thus I am fairly confident when I say that the Blue Mage is not a staple of the Final Fantasy franchise"....

But the reason I would like to see BLU in FFXIV is an obvious one. I like the job. It is also a unique job as it is the only job that uses monster abilities as it's focus, which would allow it to bring something new to the mix.

I should stress I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't see why you felt the need to break out the "I have better knowledge of FF history card" as if it was some key factor/point into why BLU should be implemented or not. You even said yourself "I never said it was weighted on how many times it appeared in Final Fantasy history." So this suggests you knew it had no bearing, yet the majority of your post was focused on that....I dunno just seems like your trying to argue an irrelevant point for no reason.

I am happy to discuss BLU and any other job with you, even if your view is that it won't be implemented. Coz maybe it won't. But This topic was just meant to be a fleeting fancy of what might be cool for a potential BLU. Posting suggestions and ideas for others to bounce off and just have fun with. Don't try to shoot that down or start an argument over something as silly/irrelevant as peoples knowledge on past FF trivia....It means nothing, and as you can clearly see just causes arguments.