A DPS Simulator 2 - SimFF

[Judge_Xero]

Thought this might be a good place to ask, but I'm curious what the relation is for DET.

Currently testing on my MCN it takes 74 Det to increase my damage by 1%. Will this always be a linear increase? i.e. 74 = 1% (despite DEX/WD Changes?)

I ask because I was looking at the relationship for all stats and both SPD and Crit have exponential gains, where as DET just starts out better.

Crit is just plain ridiculous, and I estimate by a 25% increase over the base, the effectiveness of each point will double.

SPD seems to be better than both Crit/DET out the gate, until you factor in not having an increase to AA damage, and the exponential gains are much lower than Crit.
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My curiosity about DET is due to the way Bard now works. Since in it's DPS stance it essentially does not have AA, and has a natively high Crit chance through Straight Shot.

So if it scales well off both the exponential gaining stats then I could see it being quite the power house if you are able to stack them both high enough.
(Crit seems to plateau with DET @ about a 5% increase at which point it just increasingly gets better)

Another point I was considering is the straight shot buff, which is natively 10% X Base Multiplier of 1.45 = 4.5% damage increase.

But....say @ a 25% increase in Crit (+~1056 Crit which doesn't seem that far off) you would have 10% X 1.7% = 7% damage increase.

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SPD example +25 = 0.01 2.49s VS 2.5s = 0.4% increase
SPD example +25 again = 2.48s VS 2.49 = 0.4016% increase

So on a class without AA, point for point SPD should start out higher than DET and further increase with each increase in reduction to the GCD.

[Hustensaft]

SPD example +25 = 0.01 2.49s VS 2.5s = 0.4% increase
SPD example +25 again = 2.48s VS 2.49 = 0.4016% increase

So on a class without AA, point for point SPD should start out higher than DET and further increase with each increase in reduction to the GCD.

You don't compare 2.48 vs 2.49. You compare 2.48 vs. 2.5 and get exactly 0.8%.

[pandabearcat]

You don't compare 2.48 vs 2.49. You compare 2.48 vs. 2.5 and get exactly 0.8%.

But the relative dps increase increases.

End case, the difference between 0.2 second gcd and 0.1 second gcd takes the same SKS, but doubles dps, 0.1 to 0.0 second gcd is infinite times more dps.

Using induction backwards SKS increases in value the more you get of it, contrary to "haste" in other games which typically decreases in value because they are inverse, something like (Base GCD)/(1 + haste%).

Our "haste" is very backwards and at high levels ridiculous.

EDIT: also I suppose I should get back to coding hm...maybe.

[Dervy]

Yeah. 73 DET = 1%. Or, 1%/73 = 0.00013, which is my DET coefficient. It's the same as me doing 1/7290, which is what I actually use for my Damage formula. So you're dead on track. It's the reason why @Arisue_Neetsha uses my 0.000137 in his new updated JP formula. He ended up with the exact same conclusion as you have with his Bard.


I've got bard weights done already. Well, the only problem is sorting out potential GCD clipping with Bloodletter once we get really, really high GCD... So I cannot accurately calculate Skillspeed, but it's higher than a Monk and Dragoon.

Off the top of my head, they were:

WD: 11
DET: 0.14
CRT: 0.223
SS: 0.135

Anyway, I've sorted out my AA formula for Dragoon now, which does take into consideration Auto-Attack Delay! And surprisingly, it's more accurate than my WD Damage model for my Dragoon!

=(((WD/3*AA_DELAY)*0.029+1)*(STR*0.1484)*(DET*0.0001472+1)*BUFFS)-1.87

Or, if I convert it to whole numbers,
=(((WD/3*AA_DELAY)/34+1)*(STR/6.8)*(DET/6795+1)*BUFFS)-1

[Judge_Xero]

Yeah. 73 DET = 1%. Or, 1%/73 = 0.00013, which is my DET coefficient. It's the same as me doing 1/7290, which is what I actually use for my Damage formula. So you're dead on track. It's the reason why @Arisue_Neetsha uses my 0.000137 in his new updated JP formula. He ended up with the exact same conclusion as you have with his Bard.

Wow, thanks for your quick reply. I didn't even think to look at your blog for that sort of information and could not find the Bard Guide page anywhere. I should just set your link as a Favorite lol.

I starting looking into it because I was trying to rationalize SE's reason for not having the MCN Turret scale off SPD (+Damage or otherwise) and through that I came to the conclusion that through the psudo AA damage that the Turret does (MCN has AA outside of Gauss Barrel, but I think they wanted the Turret to be considered the AA damage for MCN while in Gauss i.e. Turret is ~20% MCN damage similar to other classes with a baseline AA % of damage)

All that just to push MCN in a different ideal gear stat priority than BRD, as that 20% difference off the top for SPD puts it so far below DET that it will never catch up.

[Dervy]

Don't think that stuff is ony blog anyway. Well, it is. But not explained. I'll be in putting a lot of stuff there this week. Bard, Monk, White Mage... Summoner maybe, and how AAs affect weights. The bard weights are with WM on btw, because who cares about it being any other way (lol!)


And yeah. It'll be weighted lower for a MCH due to your Turrets, but.. it won't be much. I mean a Bard without WM has an SS weighting of 0.103. If anything, SS will be around 0.09 for an MCH as you only have one DoT.

How does DET/WD/DEX scale with Turrets?

[Judge_Xero]

And yeah. It'll be weighted lower for a MCH due to your Turrets, but.. it won't be much. I mean a Bard without WM has an SS weighting of 0.103. If anything, SS will be around 0.09 for an MCH as you only have one DoT.

How does DET/WD/DEX scale with Turrets?

You're right that the SS weighting for MCN wont be as bad as people think, although I feel it is quite complex due to the variables associated with the Turrets.

Single Target (Rook) it is ~20% of your damage, but toss in a fight like A2S where you have on average 5 mobs for the Bishop to AOE (300 Potency VS 80 Single Target) and it can quickly jump to 30-35% of your damage further reducing the weight of SS.

That's why I can appreciate what they did with BRD as SS is pretty consistent, as like you said why "weight" it outside of WM, or as people complain plays like BLM.

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I don't have any concrete data on Turret Damage other than it seems to scale at a slightly higher rate (only tested against AA damage) on DEX + DET VS WD compared to the Player

+ 73 DET

270.5 VS 273.5 -> ME + 3
267.5 VS 271.5 -> Rook + 4

+33 DEX

270.5 VS 283.5 ME + 13
267.5 VS 282.5 ROOK + 15

Weapon -- Hive VS Antique (+56 DET - 9 DET - 2 WD)

270 -> 280 ME + 10
260 -> 267 Rook + 7

Hopefully you can understand what I wrote. It's the average compared against the original value.

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Something else that has been bugging me:

When looking at the weight of Crit - is it different than the other stats on classes with "Increased Action Damage" due to the crit multiplier?

[Dervy]

Nah. Multipliers like that don't affect any weights Weights. Same goes for things like Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes.... Well, might be different for jobs without AAs.

EDIT:

Well, just did some napkin math cause I can't sleep.

With your Turret, 271.5/267.5 = *1.014953271 boost. We can round this up to 1.015, or, a 1.5% boost in damage for 73 DET.

1.5%/73 = 0.000205479

1%/0.000205479 = 48.889

1/4889 = 0.000205479

So, going back to your base damage with your Turret:

267.5*(73/4489+1) = 271.4575342

So, we can assume that for Turrets at least, Determination scales 7290/4889 = 1.49 - 1.5 times better than it does for WD. Which is hilarious, as that means DET for Turrets scale better than it does for AA's.

Of course, I need A LOT more Data Samples to test this, but we can assume that it'll be around the 0.00017 -> 0.00021 range for DET scaling with Turrets.

[Griffeth]

Anything I can do to help test out machinist stuff or get numbers? Really like where this is going and would love to help get more solid numbers for our stat weights and whatnot.

[pandabearcat]

People could always use more testing to determine the effect of stats, so just hit stuff with different gear. Possibly need testing on the effect of stats on the turret as well.

I sort of took a break from coding because I have new hours at work, 9-6:30 now whee. I've also been playing Sky Forge (which is super amazing, btw) so my free time is limited.

Anyhoo I should have a preview of the spell database tomorrow and hopefully people can look over and correct any obvious mistakes. Ideally the spell grammar will be done by this friday and then we will be DONE with the core engine and I can just start blowing through class additions (which are fairly easy).

After that point I anticipate I will take a break, then document all the code and put it on github. At that point I think I will probably be done with it barring any glaring bugs, and will try to find some peeps to maintain the code.