Translation quality

[kyuven]

When localization changes the meaning of the original script or leaves out details entirely, it's no longer a localization. It's a butchery. The point of localization is to modify translated scripts to match local culture and language. It's not to completely change the meaning of statements or events, or even leave things entirely out.

This...isn't always true.
Since localization often happens after a work is finished, those in charge of the process often have the whole work to work with rather than numerous in-progress scripts and the like.
Thus, often plotholes can actually be FIXED by a localization rather than broken.
An interesting example is in GoLion/Voltron. In an early episode, the character Sven is killed off, only to have his identical twin brother show up later and save the day.
This was, obviously, quite a groaner plot twist.
In the American localization? He didn't die, and rather than his inexplicable twin brother showing up, his injuries just healed.
And that's before you get into issues where the original plot is just plain wrong about something, such a character who grew up in New York City inexplicably being a cowboy with a ranch.
In New York city.
It happens!

[Illya]

This...isn't always true.
Since localization often happens after a work is finished, those in charge of the process often have the whole work to work with rather than numerous in-progress scripts and the like.
Thus, often plotholes can actually be FIXED by a localization rather than broken.
An interesting example is in GoLion/Voltron. In an early episode, the character Sven is killed off, only to have his identical twin brother show up later and save the day.
This was, obviously, quite a groaner plot twist.
In the American localization? He didn't die, and rather than his inexplicable twin brother showing up, his injuries just healed.
And that's before you get into issues where the original plot is just plain wrong about something, such a character who grew up in New York City inexplicably being a cowboy with a ranch.
In New York city.
It happens!

The story of FFXIV is a work in progress, so while your example is an interesting one, it doesn't apply to FFXIV's story in particular.

Eorzea is a fictional world, so your example about New York also doesn't apply to FFXIV.

[Waliel]

Since the explanation contains spoilers, i’ve enclosed in the spoiler tags below.

After defeating The White Raven (Nael van Darnus) on the Rivenroad (back in 1.x), his essence was absorbed by Bahamut, creating a new being.

This new being took the form of Nael deus Darnus, which consisted of the essence of both Nael van Darnus as well as Bahamut. Nael van Darnus is Male, however Bahamut is portrayed as a female. Since the essence of those two merged into 1 being, Nael deus Darnus looks female, but still talks like the male version Nael van Darnus.

Close-ish. It's a little different.

The reincarnation Bahamut made out of Nael Van Darnus' aether into Deus is not perfect. The female is someone from his memories, which is why he look like her. This was stated a couple of times.

I'm also sure there's nothing female about Bahamut either.

[kyuven]

The story of FFXIV is a work in progress, so while your example is an interesting one, it doesn't apply to FFXIV's story in particular.

Eorzea is a fictional world, so your example about New York also doesn't apply to FFXIV.

This is why these are examples of the concept being applied and not direct examples of XIV.
I can't cite examples for something that hasn't happened yet to my recollection. There are plenty of little touches regarding shifting word orders and the like that happen as early as the opening cutscene, but in the grand scheme of things they mean next to nothing.
As an example, and just to clarify this is the TYPE of thing that happens, not a word-for-word citation:
English: "This place is a jewel in the desert, tainted by crime and stuff. It's called Ul'Dah."
Japanese: "This is Ul'Dah, it's fantastic beauty conceals the deceitful taint of crime and corruption beneath the surface."
Since Japanese doesn't handle metaphors very well, but English has to explicitly teach them or else students can't understand basic literature, some liberties are ALLOWED to be taken, especially since they're only really limited by mouth movements (and metaphor/simile can be a way AROUND mouth movement issues) In an ideal circumstance, these liberties can enhance the story and give the characters some depth.
One often cited example is the choice to not use baritone voices for male Lalas. In fact, most English language Lalas up to and including Nanamo herself are softer spoken in the English version than the Japanese.
Lolorito and Teledji, for example, sound like old men twice their size in Japanese. In English? Their voices are just right for their sizes.
I usually prefer the Japanese version myself but...when looking for examples of superlative dubbing, look no further than the Lalafell males with speaking roles.

And as for "Eorzea is a fictional world," well, yes it is. But sometimes the internal continuity can be conveniently forgotten by the original staff, but not by the localization team.
There is CURRENTLY no example of this that I can think of, mostly because the two versions are made side-by-side (especially after the Acheron debacle), but it can and does happen.
Mostly it can have to do with line delivery and, as mentioned before, certain gestures that don't fit.
For example, the Japanese "come here" gesture, when done with the game's engine, can come across as the American/European" "sit down" or "go away" gesture. Eorzeans have their own "come here" gesture, but for a unique NPC (like a beastman or something) they may have to animate by hand, and may miss this fact. The localization department would notice this since they have to test it, but may have to remove the gesture to keep verisimilitude as there is already a standard gesture within the setting that wasn't used.
Again, I don't think this actually happens in the game (mostly because of the aforementioned pre-existing emote and the beast tribes having limited animations), but it CAN happen and would be an example of why a change such as this would need to be made. It might be judged to be better to be seen as "dull" than be completely misconstrued in meaning.

[Takfloyd]

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No, that's the English version of it, pay attention. It's the exact mess of a translation we talked about.

The character makes it completely clear she was always a female in the Japanese version, referring to when she was a little girl. She may very well have been supposed to be a man originally though, and changed to female later because in Japanese, it didn't cause any major conflicts.

[Spellbinder]

No, that's the English version of it, pay attention. It's the exact mess of a translation we talked about.

The character makes it completely clear she was always a female in the Japanese version, referring to when she was a little girl. She may very well have been supposed to be a man originally though, and changed to female later because in Japanese, it didn't cause any major conflicts.

Source? Another poster claims Nael Van Darnus doesn't mention gender at all in the JP. Or are you referring to Nael Deus Darnus? I've seen my fair share of JP posts saying "what!? but I thought Nael was a dude!"

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The Nael of 1.0 was very clearly male. Voice and all.

[Aldora]

No, that's the English version of it, pay attention.

No need to be snarky, sir. Illya was curious why “Nael” changed from a male to a female and we replied with the knowledge we obtained from Coil. This information happened to come from the English version, which in essence should be the similar, if not the same.

Since not everyone can read Japanese, would you be so kind to point out where in the Japanese text it was stated that “Nael” was a female from the start, as you mentioned within your previous comments?

While I enjoy the localization for the most part and particularly the quality of the writing, some changes in the English translation are really contentious and make absolutely no sense.

For example, one pivotal character was changed from female to male in English, without changing the model, leading to a bunch of nonsensical mumbo jumbo being inserted to explain this obvious discrepancy. This was probably due to a misconception ny the translation team because Japanese doesn't always use gender pronouns, but they should have solved it in a better way. Even something as simple as "she was hiding her gender".

The character makes it completely clear she was always a female in the Japanese version, referring to when she was a little girl. She may very well have been supposed to be a man originally though, and changed to female later because in Japanese, it didn't cause any major conflicts.

Were you referring to the information gathered from Coil where the person in question was Nael deus Darnus? Or were you referring to way back in 1.x, where the person in question was called “Nael van Darnus”?

The reason why i ask, is that based on the character profile pages, Nael van Darnus was apparently portrayed as a male in the Japanese text as well.

At least one reference has been noted from Version 1.0.
ネールはやっぱり男だった (Nael Was a Man After All)
http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/1441865/

Nael Van Darnus (not Nael Deus Darnus) being referred to as a man in the dialogue. Apparently the Japanese description for him on the lodestone referred to him as a man as well.

Spellbinder was probably referring to this page: Key Characters from the Garlean Empire

Nael van Darnus also had the posture, idle pose and emotes of a male Elezen. As you can see here:

Rivenroad Cutscenes (Contains Spoilers)
Nael van Darnus Emotes

[Aeyis]

Even if we scrap the norm of western dragons, I still expect the dragon to be a bit ornery - and not that impressed with us. I'd personally be annoyed at how polite and verbose the Japanese Sormr was if translated and not localized (especially after his opening action is to attack). Anyway , agree to disagree lol.

You feel that way because of the english alterations to the script. From the japanese script its obvious he speaks such in part of his regal nature, and in part because of his respect for one of Hydaelyns own.

There are certain liberties when it comes to localization, but I don't think it should get to a point where people don't think of characters the same way.
And the actual text takes quite a few deviations, which I've become accustomed to. But then to actually see that the scene is different between the two felt like we'd cross a line.

This seems the discussion up pretty well. Its also the number 1 reason why overall a fantranslation is actually prefered to a offical, but localized translation.

The moment you start actually changing characters your going to far imo.

Which is precisely what they did in Version 1.0. But for whatever reason the JP decided they wanted to use random suffixes, and the English decided to continue using the numbering system from Version 1.0.

1.0 had the suffixes, not a number system. What we have now is changed from what it was like in 1.0 It was the localization team that changed it from 1.0 to 2.0 for some reason.

Why do Hawaiians never need a dentist?

They have good teeth.

That's a Japanese joke translated :P It works as an anti-joke in English, but that's not the original idea. The words for Hawaiians and Good Teeth are very similar in Japanese, its a pun that doesn't work in English.

Kanji puns are a bad example. From my understanding even most Japanese roll their eyes when someone uses one. :P

[Takfloyd]

Ok spoilers are free for all I guess.

She specifically refers to herself in terms of "when I was a young girl", AFTER the battle, when Nael is free of Bahamut's control. I was told this by someone, and went to check it myself. While I'm not overly fluent in Japanese, there's no mistaking the shoujo jukugo. If anyone who knows the language better wants to look it up that would probably settle the case.