Translation quality

[Walfan]

Yo,

I was wondering : how good and faithful is the english translation of the game ?
I'm playing with french text and english voices right now and they are often vastly different from one another. For example, one of the french lines is "..." while the character actually says something in english. The french translators translated the game directly from japanese too so I'm not sure which one is right.
I heard the english translation added lots of extra fluff and actually even altered some personnalities, how true is that statement ?

While I'd rather play in french, I have no issues with english and it'd give me an easier time understanding the names of locations, items, spells and such most of the other players talk about. Besides, english spells have better continuity from past FF games.

Thanks!

[Khyra]

Translations are good (as in they sound good, are interesting, etc). But they are not "faithful" exactly. Often those two are not mutually achievable.

Even things like quest names, etc are sometimes changed for the English one. Basically they have a whole team doing English localization that wants the game to feel like it was designed for / written in English for those players.

So really there are two, very similar but not the same, versions of the game being written: English and Japanese. And sounds like French and maybe German are just translations off the Japanese and they don't have huge localization teams like they do for English.

I play with Japanese voices and English text and often notice differences (I can speak/understand Japanese passably well, but I'm not fluent). Not like "completely different plot" level, but they definitely change things to either sound much better or be more culturally understandable.

[Natsuno]

Fernehalwes explanation on localization with regards to English and Japanese versions.

Mostly to do with titles, but the 1st paragraph explains the process behind why japanese and english versions differ to an extent.

[Walfan]

Thanks for your answers everyone.
I'm still torn, it looks like the english translation is pretty good but that Midgardsormr thing is a bit worriying. Although, I don't know if the french translation is any better to be honest, I just know it's more literally translated.

Fernehalwes explanation on localization with regards to English and Japanese versions.

Mostly to do with titles, but the 1st paragraph explains the process behind why japanese and english versions differ to an extent.

Interesting, although I'm still wondering why the Curtana title is called "The True" in english while it's called "Fearless Knight" in french.

[Vespar]

I recall on reddit somewhere that someone had translated the Japanese text during the encounter with Midgardsormr, and compared it to the English text we received. It was VASTLY different. The english translation appeared heavily edited with much less dialogue that the Japanese text seemed to suggest.
By comparison, I assume that the French translation was much the same. This was likely done to save time and money on voice acting and localization.

Edit: Found the reddit post
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

[Voltron_HD]

I recall on reddit somewhere that someone had translated the Japanese text during the encounter with Midgardsormr, and compared it to the English text we received. It was VASTLY different. The english translation appeared heavily edited with much less dialogue that the Japanese text seemed to suggest.
By comparison, I assume that the French translation was much the same. This was likely done to save time and money on voice acting and localization.

Edit: Found the reddit post
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

wow! thank you for this post. This cleared up MANY questions I had about that encounter. This however makes me wonder how much of the story im actually missing from the weak translations we where given. Im kinda depressed now lol

[Gamer3427]

Edit: Found the reddit post
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

Honestly, by looking at the translations side by side, I think we would have been better suited to have a combination of the two. The current translation does well to make it mysterious enough that we are left guessing as to what Midgardsomr's words mean, while still explaining enough that we get the sense that there is more going on than what we've been led to believe. That being said, a few of the lines would have done better with the more direct translation, for example some of the parts where the more direct translation explains that Midgardsomr is testing you.....

EDIT: In the end though, I prefer what we have now, with this encounter in particular, over the more direct translation. Mainly because the direct translation makes Midgardsomr sound more friendly to you, rather than leaving his stance towards you as more of a mystery. You still think he's helping you with the current translation, you just don't know how, and are left wondering what his motivations are.....

[Averax]

I recall on reddit somewhere that someone had translated the Japanese text during the encounter with Midgardsormr, and compared it to the English text we received. It was VASTLY different. The english translation appeared heavily edited with much less dialogue that the Japanese text seemed to suggest.
By comparison, I assume that the French translation was much the same. This was likely done to save time and money on voice acting and localization.

Edit: Found the reddit post
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

Midgardsormr was purposefully made more menacing and vague in the English version. In the Japanese version he's much more friendly and up front.

Edit: While we're talking about translation and localization. Why are the blm/whm spells different in the english version.

In Japanese they use the traditional FF names. For example: "Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga". However, here they use initial spell name and add numbers to it.

[Spellbinder]

Why are the blm/whm spells different in the english version.

Here you go.

Warning: Very lengthy detailed post.

Hello all,

A fire is burning hot, so I've put aside the Phase 4/2.0 work to attempt and quell the flames. Hopefully this doesn't end up making the fire bigger. It has been several weeks since I've seen my newborn awake. The long nights and weekends are beginning to take their toll on both my body and sanity. But, I want to make sure that you guys are informed. I don't want to pull the good 'ol "we'll ignore them and they'll go away" tactic, because as a player myself, I absolutely hate it when devs do that. It's a copout (though, as a dev, I can kind of understand why they do it...being called "an ignorant [insert colorful explicative here]-tard" by a nameless shadow in front of the entire world wreaks havoc on the soul).

So, on to the meat that goes with the potatoes:

First off, the decision to go with the numerical naming conventions for spells was NOT because we think American gamers are irreparably dimwitted or somehow less skilled than their Japanese counterparts. There was a time when an 'easy' version of a certain FINAL FANTASY was released because it was believed the American market couldn't handle the JRPG difficulty level. That age is long behind us. There is no hidden agenda to rub mud in the face western players in general. The LOC team is made up almost completely of westerners, and if anyone tried to do that here at SQEX, we would be the first in their faces.

If the decision the EN team made on this particular issue has led some players to believe they are being slighted, then for that I apologize. That was never our intention.

This also wasn't an attempt to cater the game specifically to WoW players, Rift players, Star Wars players, Mabinogi playaz, etc. Our fearless producer has stated in the past that we are not targeting a single player base. We are targeting everyone. We want FINAL FANTASY XIV to be enjoyed by as many people as possible.

The decision to go with the I, II, III system was merely an attempt by the EN team to make the naming system a bit more intuitive so that it might better achieve that goal.

I don't need to tell you that MMORPGs are different from turn-based RPGs in that in the heat of battle, split-second decisions need to be made. There's no time to stop and think. No pause. Anything that is going to give you an advantage, no matter how slight, will be a benefit in the long run. That's not to say, however, a game should be dumbed down because of that.

And here's where logic takes us: There is a big difference between challenging and difficult; or more specifically "challenging but intuitive" and "difficult because it's not as intuitive as it could be."

The choice by the LOC team to go with I, II, III, IV instead of -, -ra, -ga, -ja was an attempt (whether the best one or not is still up for debate) to have a naming system that leaned towards the latter.

After looking at both options:

Cure　　　　　　　　　　Cure
Cure II　　　　　　　　 Cura
Cure III　　　　　　　　Curaga
Cure IV　　　　　　　　Curaja

we felt that having a base name, and then a number offset from that name (with a space) made it quicker and easier to discern the original spell, as well as its level

So then, how is I, II, II, IV more intuitive than the Japanese system of suffixes? Well, it’s not a matter of which is better, but which is better for each language.

As you've all probably come to realize, the current spell naming system is based not on effect, but on the order in which you learn the spells. You learn Cure first, then Cure II, then Cure III, then Cure IV. The Japanese uses the traditional FINAL FANTASY method of adding a one-syllable suffix, but in the end, the rule is the same: you learn the base first ケアル (Kearu -> Cure), and then ケアルラ (Kearura -> Cura), ケアルガ (Kearuga -> Curaga), ケアルジャ (Kearuja -> Curaja)、and so on.

(I) -> no suffix
II -> ラ (ra)
III -> ガ (ga)
IV -> ジャ (ja)

Fun Fact: Since the old days of FF, French has used a system that takes the base spell name and adds an adjectival descriptor. For example, the second level of fire (Feu) is not "Feura", but " Extra Feu." The third level is not "Feuga" but "Mega Feu". This is actually very intuitive in that it describes the level of potency, whereas the Japanese suffixes are simply sounds that have no meaning.

The hitch that the EN team noticed when first translating these was in that beyond "the order learned," there was no consistency across spells when looking at the suffix versus the effect.

Take for example Cure and Blizzard.

Cure and Cure II both heal single targets, whereas Cure III is an AoE spell.
On the other hand, while Blizzard is a single target spell, it is Blizzard II, not Blizzard III that has the AoE effect. Not to mention, none of the Thunder spells (I, II, or III) have AoE effects at all.

Instead of having a system where 'ga' suffix is always going to mean AoE, it just means "learned third in order."

We also noticed that with the thaumaturge action system, casting Blizzard or Fire stacks what is called 'umbral ice' or 'umbral fire'.

Casting Fire I grants 1 umbral fire
Casting Fire II grants 2 umbral fires
Casting Fire III grants 3 umbral fires

Seeing this, we agreed that I, II, III corresponding to 1, 2, 3 was, in a way, slightly more intuitive than -, -ra, -ga corresponding to 1, 2, 3.

But that wasn't all. Things got even trickier with materia.

The naming system for materia in FFXIV is similar to that of spells in that the JP uses suffixes to denote the materia's level.The problem here is, wedged in-between 'ra' and 'ga' (which would be II and III in EN spells), they have an extra level--'da' so that the progression goes like this:

Materia (I)
Materira (II)
Materida (III)
Materiga (IV)
Materija (V)

So players will have to remember that 'ga' (in the case of materia, and only materia) is level IV, not level III like all the spells. In EN, level 3 is III, level 4 is IV. That number also corresponds to the numerical grade of carbonized matter that is required to meld materia. Grade 3 carbonized matter is is used on level III materia, and so on.

That's not to say that the Japanese method is completely unintuitive. It works well in Japanese for a number of reasons that in some ways are very language-specific. For example, the Japanese written language is set up so that the width of every single character, whether it be hiragana, katakana, or kanji, is the same exact width. This means that a 4-character word is going to be the same length as every other 4-character Japanese word in existence.

ケアル (Cure)
ケアルラ (Cura)
ケアルガ (Curaga)
ケアルダ (Curada)

ブリザド (Blizzard)
ブリザラ (Blizzara)
ブリザガ (Blizzaga)
ブリザダ (Blizzada)

サンダー (Thunder)
サンダラ (Thundara)
サンダガ (Thundaga)
サンダダ (Thundada)

As you can see, the JP lines up perfectly, making it very simple for that added single-character suffix to be set apart from the original word. I understand that while the EN also does follow this pattern, it is not as precise as the JP is, due to the fact we use proportional fonts.

Again, this is not the only reason, but even with a Schrodinger's box filled with reasons, I'm sure that over hours and hours of play, everyone would sooner or later remember all the combinations. However, the way we saw it was, why try to make everyone bear that burden for the sole purpose of bearing it? If there was a simpler way to make everything line up, why not introduce that?

I understand completely that there is also that factor of legacy terminology, and this is why I was on the fence for so long on this issue. Other than FFXI, most of the old FFs use the JP suffixes, so they have that nostalgia factor. It is what they have always been. It would be like changing Phoenix Down to the 'proper' translation 'Phoenix Tail Feather' ('feather didn't fit in the UI back in the day, so they had to make it down, and that stuck). Nobody would get away with that, no matter how good their intentions. In this case, however, we felt that with the current way the spells are set up by the battle team (LOC has no say over the effects of individual spells, only the EN, FR, and DE names) that a little deviation might help bring some rhyme to the battle team's reason. It was a gamble, and the decision was made to pull the trigger. In 1.0, the JP followed the EN and used I, II, III. In 2.0, the JP decided to go back to the suffixes, EN decided to remain the same.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that we'll continue to monitor this thread, and see where it takes us. However, I would like to ask you (as always) to keep it civil. As a fan myself, I know how easy it is to get derailed when passionate about an issue. Passion is great and more than welcome here. Rancor is bad. Leave the rancor to the Tonberries. (OMG! Tonberries confirmed!)

[Aeyis]

Here you go.

It doesnt really explain why they decided to change the names tho. As originally in ffxiv they did have the usual names.
I get the impression they changed it simply because they wanted to to ''mark'' their localization work.