Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

[Sskaiin]

stuff

We could spend months going back and forth listing examples of requirements to gain certain things. I.E. Uncharted 2 = Beat the game on Crushing, get the platinum trophy, collect all treasures to get the skeleton skins to use in Multiplayer that had the advantage of being silent.

The overall statement is that things people want are sometimes locked behind certain requirements. People that want those things need to do those things to get them.

Getting 1 job to 50 and completing 2.55 gives you instant access to 3 level 30 jobs. You want them to do it when a person gets 1 class to 30? Which one sounds more balanced? A level 50 with 2.55 completed gets 3 free level 30's or 1 level 30 gets 3 free 30's. First sounds fair to me, second sounds like a cheap handout.

You want to see players enjoying new content? Well if they are new players or old ones who haven't completed the MSQ yet then guess what? It's all still new content to them they can enjoy.

[Eidolon]

First of all, before I post anything, I just want to give a cordial bow and a "Thanks" to you for cleaning it up a little. :3 There's a lot less aggressiveness in this post and honestly, you have some really great/amazing points. So, thanks again.

We could spend months going back and forth listing examples of requirements to gain certain things. I.E. Uncharted 2 = Beat the game on Crushing, get the platinum trophy, collect all treasures to get the skeleton skins to use in Multiplayer that had the advantage of being silent.

Interesting point on Uncharted 2... the Platinum trophy I can understand - that's a measured achievement system, and makes sense. Attatching multiplay rewards to it though? Bleh. This is why I play Single Player games for the Single Player. xD

The overall statement is that things people want are sometimes locked behind certain requirements. People that want those things need to do those things to get them.

I won't disagree with this sentiment. But I do believe there should be a certain limit to the restrictions on things that is a part of good game design. In my eyes, the limit of a level 50 / story cap is a bit too much. But I can understand the sentiment towards the current restrictions as well (going to the next post on this one)

Getting 1 job to 50 and completing 2.55 gives you instant access to 3 level 30 jobs. You want them to do it when a person gets 1 class to 30? Which one sounds more balanced? A level 50 with 2.55 completed gets 3 free level 30's or 1 level 30 gets 3 free 30's. First sounds fair to me, second sounds like a cheap handout.

This is actually... an extremely fair and valid point. You shouldn't be given 3 level 30's for leveling one job up to 30. Perhaps making it so that PLD or WAR at 30 unlocks DRK, DPS at 30 unlock MCH, and SCH or WHM at 30 unlocks AST would be a good way to do it (Since that would b e keeping things in the spirit of the same-role, and would make for a more player-freindly transition.)

I'm not completely opposed to locks, so long as they make sense. And I have to concede to you that yea... you shouldn't get access to all 3 if you haven't leveled a role appropriate for the job to that point. Right now it's interesting in the fact that getting to 50 + 2.55 completion will unlock all 3. While not very newcommer friendly, I'll admit it's a nice little reward for those of us who have gotten there. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing an alternate path being awarded to those who are new to the game - as stated above

You want to see players enjoying new content? Well if they are new players or old ones who haven't completed the MSQ yet then guess what? It's all still new content to them they can enjoy.

There are a few big selling points for new players to join at the expansion:
1) The playing field is even. There is no longer catchup.
2) New jobs = much hype. People joined the game for /Ninja/ too.
3) Expansion = new content.

In my eyes, #1 and #2 are slightly hindered by the current system. Buying Heavensward out the gate is pointless and they should only buy ARR until they reach 50, at which point they should buy heavensward. This isn't a very good business model in my eye because it dissuades people from buying them both and the less investment = less reason to continue (People are more prone to tolerate that which they invest more into.)

In its own way it's good as well because if someone doesn't buy Heavensward and decides they don't like the game during ARR storyline, then they just saved themselves the cost of an expansion. But the way I see it, you might still hook someone easier on a job they're interested in at 30 than you might in telling them to wait until 50 + buy an expansion to try the new job.

Still, thanks again for keeping it civil.

Beowulf (unique Job) access via optional story Arc
Cloud Strife (unique Job) access via optional story Arc
Worker 13 (unique Job and character design) access via optional story Arc
Dragontamer (Beowulf's gf) access via optional story Arc

Man it's been a while since I did Final Fantasy Tactics. <.< Wonder if I can get it on steam...

[Duuude007]

Not to mention that if, like Eidolon suggests, a fresh 30 gets 3 more free lvl 30 jobs, they can take one of these to 50+ explicitly doing msq very quickly, when every single person who planned ahead and was msq capped would get those level 30 jobs and be forced to do the much much slower 30-50 grind.

That said...

They limited access to the MSQ XP bonuses to sub 50 jobs NOT earned in Heavensward. I cannot express how grateful I am that they did this, to promote fairness.

[Tsuga]

snip

I understand your position that the new Jobs may be a selling point to someone just starting the game, so leveling a job that they may not be interested in from 1-50, plus story could push them away. I don't think that even a majority of the people who do want to play these jobs would quit, just like that. Like you, I'm speculating.

These players will have to level other classes anyway. It's fundamental to XIV's design. They will have to go back to level 1, probably several times. I do not think that completing a story that takes half as long as it currently does, and rewards far more than it currently does (easing gear progression), is as much of a gate as people seem to think it is. I think that a casual player could get through that content in less than a month, especially with friends. Again, I'm speculating - however based on the confirmation that exp will be roughly doubled. If players DO leave because they can't have dark knight at 30, then I have to question whether they would have stuck around very long past 60, anyway.

I see these jobs as something to work toward. They ARE appealing, and just like many games with similar systems - a lot of the best/coolest classes take more work to get. I think that they are an objective to strive for, and something that makes Ishgard a more appealing achievement.

I also think that SE has gated this content for important reasons (I guess we'll know on Friday). They have done very well with the design and balance of this game, and I am not one to second guess this decision - because let's face it, the easy thing to do would be to NOT gate Ishgard at all and just use it to essentially reset all of the progress anyone who's been playing since launch has made, and ignore all of the content that they themselves have spent 3+ years developing. I could argue that this would lose SE more of their dedicated players than it would gain, though.

[Balipu]

Forgive me if I am incorrect, but is Ninja not just a case where all you must do is unlock it like any other job?

True, there was no special requirement. But it was not avaiable when I began playing, even though I know it would come. My point was that I did at least 75% if not more of the MSQ even though I knew I would change to ninja as soon as it became available. So it is not a tragedy if new players have to complete the ARR side of the MSQ with one of the currently existing 10 jobs.



In other words, this is an extremely unlikely situation and what's more likely is people will enter the dungouns with their freinds and clear together, which will be less of a carry and moreso completing the content in a meaningful way. The only time they might do the carry is A) To get the armor, or B) to help their friend clear the MSQ one time and move on. And they'll do that regardless of job, so it has no relevance to 3.0 jobs.

True, but if you have high level friends you only need one friend to help you catch up. Joining an FC helps a lot. Familiarizing yourself with party finder helps even more.


What's the point here, if I may ask? The amount of knowledge we had about the new jobs and their requirements has little to no baring on the discussion at hand.

As stated, once we knew they would be level 30, it made sense that the only limitation of unlocking them would be having a level 30 job and -maybe- having another job at 15 to support it (As current jobs work this way.)

So...
I don't understand what you're getting at. Sorry.
I meant we first got the info that we will get new jobs. Although everyone understood that the Heavensward jobs will be in Ishgard. Much later it was revealed that the new jobs would start at level 30. At that point people began having problems with stuff that they accepted before.



You're quoting out of context. Do you know what the issue I was outlining with that was? It was the counter to the idea that someone will level as a tank (PLD/WAR) 1-50 and then switch to DRK at 50 because it was the most logical. My counter was that someone might choose to go with DRG (A DPS) and then switch to DRK at 30, instantly negating the whole point he had about it being "Helpful" to new players to be forced to 50 this way and that it would teach them their role.

True, but they might realise that the other classes are fun and maybe they wont main a DRK. They might try it, but once they realise that they can't play it effectively and that party members always kick them for not even knowing the basics, they will go back to the classes they grew fond of during the MSQ.
Here's the issue you're missing, though.

Fate Grinding doesn't often teach you meaningful use of your job. And this is how -many- people are going to level due to the massive influx of players making FATE grinding extremely lucrative out the gate for people trying to level as fast as possible. Meanwhile, if we allowed them to access the job at level 30, they would take the level 30 Job through MSQ and get to experience it and learn it via dungouns far more effectively than doing anything else.

It is far more beneficial to let the player play as the job they want as soon as possible (In my scenario, once they have a battle class to 30) than it is to make them take a step back. As cited before, we've seen many FATE-ninjas and just how bad they can be.

Yes, fate leveled people are bad I'll give you that. Well they can continue to farm FATEs in Coerthas. Like I said, the wast majority of players have no qualms about kicking out those who aren't familiar with their classes. I hate these people(the ones doing the kicking) but there are a lot of them. Eventually the faters will have to fall back on classes they know how to play. I know this is harsh but these are the realities of the game.
I doubt those who can't be bothered to learn their class will get better just because we let them skip stuff everybody else had to do.

[Frederick22]

I dont understand why people keep complaning about this, get over with. You need to finish MSQ to go to HW and get the new jobs. just do it, you will a very nerft ARR story already anf stop complaining beacuse this is how things will be.

[T2teddy]

Eidolon new people to this game would not be able to get the new jobs anyway until level 30. We do not yet know what the plans are for making them accessible to those players. Unless perhaps the NPCs will be standing on the Dragonhead side of the Gates of Judgement.

I've run around in Coerthas at level 30 so its doable.

[Fortified]

Why do you all feel the need to baby new players? As someone who is still kinda newish, it's insulting. Plus most of you got through the story, why do you think new players can't handle it?

[T2teddy]

Actually I think the original complaint was that new players won't be able to get the new jobs immediately because you must complete the storyline before you can get at the job NPCs. Hence the 'reason' why its so unfair to have to do the storyline... IDK I sort of lost track

However my point remains:
285 total MSQs... that's all new players need to complete and a great many of those take less than 5 minutes, hell several are almost insta turn-ins right at the same NPC.

[RiceisNice]

They won't have to suffer through the 40-50 drought either.