So what is PLD good at?

[Launched]

1. Has a Shield.
2. Imortal Will. Usefull in T9, Levi EX, Titan EX.
3. Stone Skin.

Block is RNG. WAR has Holmgang. 10% Stoneskin is incredibly weak. Foresight is awful on both tanks.

Outdps yes, outmitigate no. PLD takes less damage than WAR because of their ability to both block and parry.

Block is RNG. Frequent Inner Beasts are far more useful and better at mitigating relevant damage.

[Reynhart]

WAR has Holmgang.

Tempered Will doesn't root you and force you take subsequent AoEs.
And doesn't require that you use your Oh-Shit! skill just to prevent a knockback.
And doesn't remove Bind...
nor Gravity...

Block is RNG. Frequent Inner Beasts are far more useful and better at mitigating relevant damage.

Bulwark is almost a guaranteed block. And remember that we have a lot more cooldowns to mitigate "relevant" damage

[SirTaint]

Block is RNG. WAR has Holmgang. 10% Stoneskin is incredibly weak. Foresight is awful on both tanks.


Block is RNG. Frequent Inner Beasts are far more useful and better at mitigating relevant damage.

Sure Block is RNG but it still factors in to overall mitigation. That is why is almost all content you put the PLD as MT in Sword oath. WAR requires defiance to use IB which is a huge DPS loss overall.

Besides T13 and Savage coil there is no reason to be in your tanking stance at this point in the game.

[Dynalon]

Block might be an RNG but it is also a tool which reduces healing required, which each healer will appreciate. Besides paladin has Bulwark which makes block almost 100%. Holmgang is very bad skill, if you are forced to use it and it actually takes effect (you would die without it), then you probably wiping anyway.
Also WAR doesnt have anything like Sentinel, other PLD cds are better than warrior versions, because PLD traits increase their duration and decrease cooldown, in boss fights PLD and WAR mitigation are similar for predictable damage, however PLD can mitigate better very high hits due to sentinel and Hallowed ground. In terms of mitigating unpredictable damage like big trash pulls, PLD rotating CDs will survive more and longer than WAR.

[Lyzern]

Honestly the best choice is to simply not use Shield Oath or Defiance. They aren't really needed at this item level anyway, with few exceptions.

As much as I enjoy pumping my effectiveness as much as I can, I'm starting to disagree with the whole min-maxing dps on tanks because I started asking myself this question:

What increases dps more:

* Having a tank be a lot less tanky, lower survivability overall and more damage taken for a percentual DPS increase above the damage that they already do

or

* Having a tank be as tanky as possible and minimizing heals needed so that the healer has the possibility to deal damage they otherwise couldn't

[Tiqa]

What increases dps more:

* Having a tank be a lot less tanky, lower survivability overall and more damage taken for a percentual DPS increase above the damage that they already do

or

* Having a tank be as tanky as possible and minimizing heals needed so that the healer has the possibility to deal damage they otherwise couldn't

I'm wondering the same, especially when see how much heal in CS are able to deal

[SirTaint]

I'm wondering the same, especially when see how much heal in CS are able to deal

Healers can still DPS with a tank out of their tank stance. The higher the raid DPS the less mechanics you have to deal with, the less mechanics you have to deal with the less healing is needed. Less mechanics also allows tanks to alter their CD rotation to be more effective. It is a progressive cycle that helps the entire raid.

People give the tanking stances too much credit. Even in FCoB you are looking at taking ~2400 damage vs ~2000 damage from an auto attack, that is one tic of regen. With the echo tanks have tons of excess HP. T13 was cleared when tanks had less then 8500 HP.

[Reynhart]

What increases dps more:
* Having a tank be a lot less tanky, lower survivability overall and more damage taken for a percentual DPS increase above the damage that they already do
or
* Having a tank be as tanky as possible and minimizing heals needed so that the healer has the possibility to deal damage they otherwise couldn't

Having a tank tanky just as it needs to be.

[Tiqa]

Healers can still DPS with a tank out of their tank stance. The higher the raid DPS the less mechanics you have to deal with, the less mechanics you have to deal with the less healing is needed. Less mechanics also allows tanks to alter their CD rotation to be more effective. It is a progressive cycle that helps the entire raid.

People give the tanking stances too much credit. Even in FCoB you are looking at taking ~2400 damage vs ~2000 damage from an auto attack, that is one tic of regen. With the echo tanks have tons of excess HP. T13 was cleared when tanks had less then 8500 HP.

Of course healers can dps which stance tanks are using, not going to discuss that.

But it's mathematical, if healer have less to heal, he can do more dps. What I'm wondering is which one the best? The bonus dps from tank in dps stance or the bonus dps from heal casting more attack spell?

Anybody made some test using a parser? I have the feeling that Boss Tanking should be done using dps stance, but I 'd love to put some objective evidence over what is just a feeling.

[Omskahn]

Technically warriors don't even have a dps stance yet