The broken FFXIV Holy trinity

[MugenMugetsu]

The holy trinity is broken, yes, but the symptoms OP described are not the ones I see as the signs of that. Where I see the holy trinity being broken is healers being expected to DPS, tanks being expected to DPS, DPS being expected to tank and raise....... It's like we're just leaving the "roles" behind altogether.

How is this broken? Tanks DPS to generate more enmity. In fact, they have specific DPS abilities that have an added effect of increasing enmity. Healers who have the free time to DPS should, as most dungeons do not require the healer to constantly be on their toes spamming cure/buff spells, and the healer dps'ing is also a sign of a good player and prevents the healer from standing around with their thumb up their butt not doing anything while they wait for the mobs/boss to finally do enough damage to the tank or any dps to actually warrant them using a cure/buff spell. A good DPS will grab hate and hold hate for as long as possible in the event that the tank is ko'd to prevent mobs from gang raping the healer(s) which would cause a wipe and waste of people's time. Also, if a DPS does have Raise, why should they not use Raise in the event that it is necessary due to the healer being busy keeping the rest of the party alive? This is especially a nonissue with Smn as all it takes is a simple use of Swiftcast + Raise which takes all of roughly 5 seconds or less. I don't see how this is an issue, nor do I see how any of these examples in any way indicate that the "holy trinity" is broken whatsoever. The examples you've provided are all actual responsibilities of the players playing those roles. While I do understand that it can be acceptable for a healer to not DPS at all, if they don't feel comfortable doing so, it seems that the vast majority of people do agree that a healer dps'ing during healing/buffing downtime is a sign of a good player and actually something that the healer should be doing to play their job 100% efficiently.

[SarcasmMisser]

Dear SE,

People enjoy playing the game one way, please force them to play the way I like playing. I am the authority on how people should play.

[Sapphic]

Dear SE,

People enjoy playing the game one way, please force them to play the way I like playing. I am the authority on how people should play.

Why did it make me think of south park that reply? XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4jn77VKlQ

[SovereignAegis]

I remember when coils of bahamut were considered extremely hard and where people WERE hard pressed to do well.

I think having varying levels of difficulty is a great game design, something for everyone.

[Nestama]

I used to be against the idea of grabbing all the trash mobs, but now I just don't care. Trash is trash. Boss fights, though... those need to be a little more complex than just "tank and spank and maybe deal with a mechanic. Otherwise ignore mechanic" (remember when doors in Diabolos were required to be opened? Me neither).

[Seferex]

I think SE should give the option to sync or not:

- If you sync (at the ilvl that the dungeon was designed for), you get the most good reward (100% tokens?)

- Half sync (like now, like ilvl 110 for i70 content), you will get less reward (40%?)

- If you dont sync, you get there with your full ilvl but you dont get any reward (so that you can still help friends to complete dungeons)

In this way i think we should all be happy?

[Gilraen]

I think SE should give the option to sync or not:

- If you sync (at the ilvl that the dungeon was designed for), you get the most good reward (100% tokens?)

- Half sync (like now, like ilvl 110 for i70 content), you will get less reward (40%?)

- If you dont sync, you get there with your full ilvl but you dont get any reward (so that you can still help friends to complete dungeons)

In this way i think we should all be happy?

Not that this isn't a good idea, but it'd put us right back to life before Roulette. Yes, Roulette wasn't around until one of the median patches of 2.0 as a form of incentive to make high levels run older dungeons so that newer players could actually get them done. You take away the rewards and we're right back to high levels ignoring older content again because of lack of incentive. With this community comradery isn't the incentive it should be.

[TruebladeNuke]

Broken? In FFXIV? Nah, it was broken in FFXI, where people turned Ninjas into tanks and Samurai into DPS. Here, the roles are clearly defined. That said, I've had to Tank things as a DPS from time to time to give the healer(s) some breathing space if the Tank(s) goes down... or isn't paying attention to the adds trying to eat the healers face.

[Seferex]

Not that this isn't a good idea, but it'd put us right back to life before Roulette. Yes, Roulette wasn't around until one of the median patches of 2.0 as a form of incentive to make high levels run older dungeons so that newer players could actually get them done. You take away the rewards and we're right back to high levels ignoring older content again because of lack of incentive. With this community comradery isn't the incentive it should be.

Well, we could just leave the stuff like they are now, but give the option to sync to the base ilvl and so you will get 200% reward from the roulette?

[KisaiTenshi]

I think SE should give the option to sync or not:

- If you sync (at the ilvl that the dungeon was designed for), you get the most good reward (100% tokens?)

- Half sync (like now, like ilvl 110 for i70 content), you will get less reward (40%?)

- If you dont sync, you get there with your full ilvl but you dont get any reward (so that you can still help friends to complete dungeons)

In this way i think we should all be happy?

Better proposal:

- When you open the DF (without a party), you get paired only with players only of the same ilevel +/- 10 of you unless you opt for ilevelsync. In which case the ilevelsync will be set to "at release" and you get full tomes. If you don't opt for level sync, there are no tome rewards, only farmables (eg for relic weapons/glamour.) This would then allow players to farm the gear they want from the dungeons instead of just farming MSQ for tomes and going straight to the 110 gear.
- When you form a party first (including just the Chocobo) you can "solo" play a dungeon to farm an item/glamor gear, but you get no tomes.
- The last option is "time trial" where you get a different reward depending on how fast the dungeon is completed and how many people remain using the roles they queued as. This would disable Raise/Resurrect from being used, all consumable buffs, and if the party wipes, the Duty fails.


At the current point in the game's life, there is absolutely no reason to play any of the "Hard" dungeons for gear. They're only played for Relic gear quest farming.

Everyone currently gets their non-tomes gear from WoD (i120) or FCoB(i135.)