A small request of SE

[Durthane]

Please, never include the PC in any cutscene that involves negative things happening that any job/class could possibly prevent. It's immersion breaking and amateurish storytelling at best, a case of "They didn't care" at worst. Incapacitation is a good work around as long as it's not used to often.


Just finished the 2.55 story finally and found myself asking Remedia "WTF are you doing!?" way way to often.

She has access to every class under the sun, and was currently a Mnk so disarming her would be laughable at best. Not that she would go anywhere in that town without a way to defend herself, especially not after we JUST UNCOVERED A PLOT BY THE MIRAGE TRUST to corrupt the crystal braves not ten minutes earlier.

Even if we assume that she is in shock from the events and allowed them to get a restraint on her, MY character would not have remained as such once the scheme became evident. Which was about the time Teledji started twirling his mustache.

Once Raubahn started the festivities there would be no chance at her staying passive, but no she just sits on the floor moping... Your a damn Mnk/Nin/War slip/break the damn chains! Then Raubahn cuts us loose and we. run away... Didn't I just run AT a giant frickin dragon not a day ago? For folks I don't even know? Now a guy I know for a fact that would have my back against hell itself is fighting a single opponent while handicapped, and Ms. God/dragon/army killer is running away rather than teaming up and kicking the hell out of the traitor real quick or atleast forcing him to flee so we all make it out?

But maybe all that is gameplay/story segregation. Maybe fighting three brass blades really is to much for Remedia. Oh, wait how many times have the NPC's told her she is the only one strong enough for whatever challenge. Yes we worked in groups but a Mnk PC is still strong enough to crack Titan at the least. A Blm still has sleep spells. A... you get where I am going with this.

My point is, all this is the product of a badly planned story at best. I'm not a writer, but these are obvious flaws that kill enjoyment of the story for anyone that has been making up their own persona for the character that isn't a passive slightly dim yes man with a chronic nodding disorder. Ok, that's a bit unfair. A character lacking in emotion with a inhuman amount of cold logic might bide their time and let the story play out this way, they would also be kinda dense to risk trial by kangaroo court.

Back to the point, you cannot put the PC in this situation without something to restrict our options that none of the classes could fight off. Or else you end up with a good chunk of the players that play this game for story left feeling cheated.

The most common arguments against this are

"It's square's story, shut up and enjoy it" Bite me, it's square's story to SELL and the product is not to my or a good many folks liking. I like this game for a lot of reasons and before this bit the story wasn't the best but not horrible. If this continues to be the story I will stop buying it, I do not want this, Square does not want this I assume. Hence why people post on the forums to hopefully be heard and effect change.

"They can't change the story depending on your class" I agree, they should write with that in mind rather than ignore it and make your character grab the idiot/coward ball every time something bad happens in a cutscene if you are playing a class that could rectify the problem. Disable them, or make the threat something to big to take on. Ilberd is not in that category and a few brass blades sure as hell aren't. ALL the brass blades maybe but that had not been established till Rem had already taken to many actions against my established personality for her. Bad storytelling for an MMO.

Ok, it's late and I've rambled long enough to get it out of my system. XD

Thanks for your time, and here's hoping we don't end up tied up by four Phurbles next time because they forgot to tell us it was ok to fight back... /sigh

[Dualblade]

Note on Monk: Yes you are a fist fighter, but you never use UNARMED fists. Without your claws/brass knuckles et al, you are at a disadvantage. As well for many fights like you said we are not alone, and we also are not neccesarily the strongest fighter, but rather the strongest with the echo. Raubahn is probably stronger then us but no echo means primal bait.

Not to say I don't think they could have handled it better, just my opinion on some of the items on your list. I do think some options would have been better off, and I hope they take such criticisms into account for Heavensward.

Edit because post limit has been hit: If I remember right in the 1.0 days there was a scene that had Gauis defeat the battle capable scions and the then player companion alone, all of them against him. The PC was there too, and just kinda stood there. So they have had a problem with this for a bit IMO, and again hopefully Heveansward sees them do a bit better. I've said before they should have let us have an unwinnable battle against at least Ilbred alongside Raubahn where we end up brought down to 1hp/we hit a time limit.

[Nutz]

Sure, I understand where you and dozens of other posters from separate threads on this topic are coming from, but it just seems pedantic to me. The events that you saw are what happened in the story. It would be nice if the player character showed a bit more assertiveness in his/ her attempt to alter them, but we were powerless to do anything. To me the only problem is that said powerlessness isn't very clearly demonstrated, however, since it's a fictional narrative I don't really have a problem with it. I could conjure up some reason we were powerless to do anything. For example, we had no weapon at the time. From a gameplay standpoint this is so detrimental it can't even happen. One might think that a MNK without a weapon is still very powerful, but we all know just how important weapon damage is and we were at 0 as far as that goes.

The variables involved in how a player character might try to change the outcome of those events are too tedious and plentiful to bother with, especially since they would all have ultimately funneled into the same conclusion (such that every player ends up in the same place). SE could have handled the details a bit better, but ultimately it doesn't change the story and if we were allowed to actually fight people would just be complaining that 'Brass Blades aren't that strong and shouldn't be able to beat us, nevermind Ilberd in a 2 on 1 fight!'

[Durthane]

I don't truly know about strongest. But seeing Rahbaun bust that pillar with a kick like that tells me the power scale in this game is higher than a lot of folks assume. Then again him losing the arm tells me we probably aren't as durable as folks assume either. That or SE makes this stuff up on the fly and consistency be damned lol. Which is acceptable to an extent for telling a good story if it is done well. Just don't do it to the PC, folks take it personal if they get hit with the Worf effect themselves.

[Durthane]

!'

Yes, and all the problems could be solved with a couple lines of dialog and a second cup of wine containing a sedative or poison that is proof against magical cures. Or Ilberd suprising us from the get go and landing a cheap shot to our vulnerable bit. Hell, make us wear some kind of formal atire for the occasion and THEN have him land a cheap shot durring the arrest. There are a thousand ways to make this story make sence, but they chose to make the PC a passive dolt.

[Belhi]

I think the idea was that they had us cornered in a way. Sure we could have let loose then and it would have been satisfying but had we it would have just played into the Monetarists hands. Even if we had taken out all the Monetarists there would have been a huge leadership vacuum and the events playing out as they had would make Raubahn look as guilty as hell of coup. The rumors that it was him behind the Sultana's death would be rife and Ul'dah would probably be facing an insurrection. If any of the Monetarists had survived, our actions would look like proof to the commoners that the Monetarists most outrageous accusations were actually true.

The Monetarists had the law on their side. We had no proof they had done anything illegal even though we new they had. Raubahn was the one ignoring the law. There is no way we could have won in that situation without crippling Ul'dah's ability to contribute against Garlemald or worse, throwing Ul'dah into a civil war.

Simply put, if we tried to fight we would lose. Maybe not in combat but in the aftershocks of our actions. We need the truth of the Monetarists actions flushed out into the open before we come down on them because we need Ul'dah's people firmly on our side in this dispute before that happens. That's truth is something we just didn't have at the time. That's why we fled. So when the time was right, when the truth comes out for all to see, then we can act and in doing so be Ul'dah's champion rather than Ul'dah's foreign conquer.

Our characters strength of arms had nothing to do with it. Frankly, it actually made our characters look bright enough to realise how serious the situation was that we couldn't just start slaughtering the Brass Blades.

[Sapphic]

You realise there are practically two armies there? The Crystal Braves and the army of ul'dah. Was in no position to fight during that, the best thing was getting out of dodge to regroup, build your support again, plan and then return and settle the wrongs (not to mention proving your innocence).

By going on a blood bath it would solidify any claims made against you that you are a bloodthirsty murderer, and a witch (evil magic echo :P ). Which would also turn the populace against the warrior of light.

So I disagree, fighting wasn't an option.

[Dalvy]

While I personally would have been suspicious the moment we recruited random people off the street, people who say "I could have turned this around!" are forgetting a few things.. The PC is not supposed to be this mega strong Superman. Remember that everything we've done up to this point, was done with a lot of help from npcs or hired mercs (other players). We got outplayed and outclassed by the Syndicate, and had no time to react or counterattack because this scene happened very fast. You would go down very quick if you tried to fight; its a handful of people versus two armies, plus the Immortal Flames being forced to act. More importantly, any aggression would just further prove the case made against you and the scions. We the player know its false, but npcs don't.

[MXMoondoggie]

You gave up for the same reason everyone else gave up. Politics and what it could mean to start a war. Your character knows they are innocent as do the other Scions so they don't want to do anything like fight back to show their guilt. The games storyline has done a fairly good job of explaining the delicate balance of the alliance where people dance around each other with words since they know they are stronger together than alone. The Scions are supposed to be a neutral party not taking sides so if they were to fight somebody it would cause a huge mess. The same reasons was why the home base was moved to a neutral territory so they don't show favour to any one side.

There is something much bigger going on and escaping to fight another day was better than laying everything down in a do or die fight. Those form Ishgard knew something was wrong too and they were the only people we can appeal to for help. A huge war is brewing born from the biggest deception ever seen in the realm and finding out who is responsible and stopping them is more important than risking everything in a fight there and then.

You are really the only force capable of standing against them and appealing for help in Ishgard they recognise your assistance so they risked themselves to keep you alive. Regardless of what you may think turning your character into the resident Mary Sue in the storyline is not good story telling.

[MXMoondoggie]

While I personally would have been suspicious the moment we recruited random people off the street, people who say "I could have turned this around!" are forgetting a few things.. The PC is not supposed to be this mega strong Superman. Remember that everything we've done up to this point, was done with a lot of help from npcs or hired mercs (other players). We got outplayed and outclassed by the Syndicate, and had no time to react or counterattack because this scene happened very fast. You would go down very quick if you tried to fight; its a handful of people versus two armies, plus the Immortal Flames being forced to act. More importantly, any aggression would just further prove the case made against you and the scions. We the player know its false, but npcs don't.

I think what people need to remember in all this is all those foresight scenes we saw in the storyline our character didn't. This was a big surprise and we were betrayed by people we thought were ours. A lot of pockets have been lined and a lot of political manipulation went on to give certain people an advantage to get to this position. People can say "Oh i knew he was bad why is my character dumb!" but what we see in scenes is not always the same as what the character sees.