New glamour dress on a male (art)

[Aeyis]

I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.

Not all men enjoy walking around with a bare chest. Shocking! I know!
Besides, while I can't speak for gay men; I know that not all women care to see a bare chested men either. Because as you say its seen as sex appeal. For that same reason many men wouldnt care to see it either.
But I'll speak for gay men anyway, and claim that not every gay man would want to see it either, because of sex appeal.


Would you want to see a bare chested woman in ffxiv for example? I mean I don't play the game to see literally half naked characters.
If people want to dress up as such that's up to them, but please dont suggest changes to an item to bring out its sex appeal.

[SpiritMuse]

Not all men enjoy walking around with a bare chest.
<snip for char limit>
Would you want to see a bare chested woman in ffxiv for example? I mean I don't play the game to see literally half naked characters.
If people want to dress up as such that's up to them, but please dont suggest changes to an item to bring out its sex appeal.

Except the female version of this outfit seems already primarily designed for sex appeal. The bare stomach, small top, the skirt with splits all the way up to the hips, exposing the legs pretty much completely with what looks like leather laces all the way to the top, doesn't leave much other interpretation. Hence the suggestions on how to make this more sexy on men.

[Aeyis]

Except the female version of this outfit seems already primarily designed for sex appeal. The bare stomach, small top, the skirt with splits all the way up to the hips, exposing the legs pretty much completely with what looks like leather laces all the way to the top, doesn't leave much other interpretation. Hence the suggestions on how to make this more sexy on men.

I guess thats up for debate.
The skirt being split does also make it a lot easier to move in. The top is connected so it doesnt actually show any cleavage and what you call small is actually quite sizable..in the right places. I dont see any leather, altho that might be me.
Its quite open for interpretation or cultural bias, you see.

[SDaemon]

I guess thats up for debate.
The skirt being split does also make it a lot easier to move in. The top is connected so it doesnt actually show any cleavage and what you call small is actually quite sizable..in the right places. I dont see any leather, altho that might be me.
Its quite open for interpretation or cultural bias, you see.

[SpiritMuse]

I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.

I agree with this. I think the chest part should lose the cloth and just be a pattern of beads over a bare chest. I would definitely put that on my character.

[NozomiKei]

I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.

Then by that logic all guy tops that aren't expressly armor should be all skin to maximize sexiness? Like I've said, I'm a girl and I dress my character in a way I find attractive. While I dress him very skimpily I never even bothered to buy the necklace/tattoo because I hate how the bare chest looks. The bare chest is not something I find attractive on a guy. It's the lithe frame, regal features, delicate but still masculine curves, the attitude. As for the detached sleeves thing: I'm an Elezen; the detached sleeves are our starter gear underwear top so I didn't see the need to put more in the game. But as I've written that I realize nobody else gets to have that and it's very unique for glamour. I've mostly kept the fabric on the top because it keeps the outfit visually balanced and because I'm just not fond of the bare-chested look(the extra long torso leaves an awkward emptiness).

Remember the point of this isn't the specifics of this outfit, it's the fact that female characters are getting more gear.

I'll really try to work on that clotheless alternate top design tonight but just like many of you I'm trying to wrap up things for Heavensward.

[hallard]

As a femroe player, I honestly don't see why any of you guys would want it. Femroes naturally have squared shoulders and more masculine frames, and this sort of effeminate style just looks...strange on them. If it looks strange on a manly female character, then it would be even worse on a manlier male. The skirt is made to emphasize the wider hips of a woman, as many skirts do, which doesn't quite work on a femroe's narrower hips, and would look downright silly on a male. While male clothes can be tailored to suit a woman, the reverse is very difficult to achieve without coming off as a joke. Just look at the top on these sketches, they just look weird on a man. They have nothing they need to cover, no need for support, and no need for such an unnecessary strip of cloth across their chest.

Then you consider the reality of a man in that skirt, their meat and veg audibly slapping about due to their inability to wear underwear without ruining the aesthetic of the open sides...ugh.

[synesthetic]

That's not enough to satisfy me. "It just upsets people" is too weak of an argument. It ignores the core base on why it happens. And if I don't know why, how can I be expected to accept it?

The only reason I keep posting in this thread is because I want to know why. Why does deviating from that standard cause distress?

I'm going off of the impression that the specific question is "why does seeing a man in women's clothing [or specifically a dress] upset anyone?"

I feel it has to do with human nature and individual experiences.

In front, there are aesthetic senses at work. Some people like what they see in the first post, some people don't. There's nothing inherently right or wrong with liking or not liking it.

And then you introduce the opinions with the like/dislike and throw in politics, and it gets ugly because a lot of people don't take disagreement too well, and a lot of people don't present their disagreement in a good way either. A lot of this ugliness going on comes from a lack of respect for other opinions and people, and some of it's going as far as rejection of them (which is bigotry).
And that's almost all of the distress I recall seeing from this thread--distress over seeing someone disagrees or isn't making the same argument, not so much any upset at the idea that a man would want to wear a dress.

Outside of this thread, there's social conformity and class, personal ethics, and psychology involved. With all of the complex and subtle associations of concepts that individuals form in their brains, there's no way there's a clean answer to why various people would get upset at seeing a man in a dress.

For some, seeing someone break their sense of the norm could be disturbing their sense of everyday security, the way that change attracts attention--we get a little alert/anxious when we see something different or abnormal, because it's unfamiliar and you may not know how to handle it, or what it heralds.
For some, seeing someone not conforming could be going against their sense of ethics. What they know and accept is "right", and going against it is "wrong".

For some, it could be similar to the uncanny valley where there's discomfort from there being a difference in expectation and what is seen. The concept applies a lot in robotics and 3D-animation, where pushing for more realism is usually more appealing and received well, until it reaches a point where there's a dip in acceptance because there's a shift in perception on what you're looking at, and your mind's expectations change.

a robot stuck inside the uncanny valley is no longer being judged by the standards of a robot doing a passable job at pretending to be human, but is instead being judged by the standards of a human doing a terrible job at acting like a normal person.

The parallel here would be that some people are no longer seeing a guy trying to dress like a girl, but are instead seeing a girl that no longer fits what they know girls to look like.
It doesn't matter if you consciously acknowledge that you're looking at a robot or a guy, it's just the brain not liking the mismatched combination of perceptual cues its getting, thereby causing discomfort.

And it is a valley. After that dip, there's general acceptance again, like people can enjoy what they see in the CG movies that have been released these past few years (unlike Tin Toy from decades ago). Likewise, guys that can be completely mistaken for girls (or vice versa) have a lot of appeal.

[Gramul]

...

Genuinely thank you for this well thought out and thorough response.
It's not really a perspective I considered.

[DarkDedede]

I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.

Not everyone wants to design their character so that it's more convenient for you, or anyone else, to personally ogle at. I really don't see how your personal taste should dictate how others should dress their character. Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of barechested male characters running around to keep you more than satisfied.

There are plenty of things people do now that I find tacky, and this example would not be my first choice to glamour my characters (male or female). However, you won't see me shaking my finger or cane at anyone that doesn't dress to my personal taste.

There are people out there that would like more options than what is currently available to them. I really don't see the issue here. The only real potential issue that I see would be if the devs don't want to put the resources into fitting the outfit for male models. Of course, if there is sufficient demand, I see no reason for them not to.