ishgard

[Frederick22]

Shiva could be one of the Knights Twelve, but I don't recall seeing a distinctly female figure in that scene. Could be, not ruling it out, but don't know yet.

Anyway, 99.9% positive Allag isn't linked to the Dragonsong War. At least not directly. The 6th Astral Era went on for ~1500 years IIRC, and the Dragonsong War's only been going on for 1000 years. Allag was wiped out in the 4th Umbral Calamity, IIRC, and we don't know how long ago that was... so it's pretty much impossible for the War to directly be Allag's fault. Not saying Allag has nothing to do with it, but I just don't see a connection right now...

War could be to prevent an alliance, but I always felt it was more about killing lots of people and/or getting more Primals summoned / created. Time will tell.

The times of the allagan empire was about 6000 years ago. I think Rowena tells you that.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

That's the thing, our characters were ousted from a city before (Ie Ul'dah) and it also has market boards and houses various important NPCs like all the class guilds. The story keeps pushing that Ishgard has something up with it and it needs to be changed, I'm not saying we're going to go up to Nidhogg and do a sweet ollie off the Pope's corpse and highfive Nidhogg, but we've got very little reason to trust Ishgard as it is. Especially considering Thordan VII was shown with the Ascians, I don't really see them being so buddy buddy with us either, at least not for long.

It doesn't, but Haurchefant's issue was Francel is obviously not a heretic, not that it's not wrong for Heretics to be executed in such a cruel way (Even though I doubt any of those executions were actually heretics). Halone is a goddess of war don't forget, and I'm not sure her principles are completely inline with Aymeric's pragmaticism. Besides, he had more pressing concerns than slaughtering heretics, what would happen if Shiva wasn't an issue at the time? Heck, if we're looking at a good difference between faithful and blind, look at the Brotherhood of Ash and the Sahagin beastmen tribes that are friendly to us. They see no reason to pursue in the activities of their more zealous counterparts, and were ousted from society in the Brotherhood's case.

Iceheart probably is being played, but I wouldn't be surprised if we were being played as well. I mean, I'll be curious how SE takes the story once we begin to learn about the past (As we still have the echo). Considering this is a war where going up the the Ishgardians and asking them to give Nidhogg's eye back and be nice to the dragons won't stop it, I don't blame her for summoning Shiva, it's the same desperation that beastmen go through and the same desperation I feel that Ishgard is about to go through. Can you really blame her though? Ishgard has no remorse for those heretics she's killed and I don't think even the more pragmatic ones do either, it's all a matter of desperation. I'll be willing to cut Aymeric some slack the second Aymeric starts going "Shoot.. Maybe killing those Heretics isn't the best idea and there's better ways to end this war."

Snip .

At least while entering, for sure! And this is FFXIV, of course both sides are being played against each other because of the Ascians :P Grubby little shadowy shadowless people. She's definitely being played, to what degree, I'm not so sure though, it's the Ascians they love controlling every aspect and also just winding the key on things. Don't worry though! You'll have plenty of time to bop her head, just run Shiva EX more :P I want to bop every Ishgardian on the head for the whole thing that occurred there in 2.0! We'll probably get more closure towards that as we begin our route of ending the Dragonsong war.

Gosh I really wish there wasn't a 20 post limit-24 hour thing >_>

[Belhi]

I think its just as likely Nidhogg is corrupt. All we have seen strongly points to him being a enemy dragon. He is certainly been portrayed as very hostile and full of hate, particularly with the impression we get from the Dragoon quests. Hell, he even looks like a nasty black spiky dragon as opposed to his apparently more benevolent falcor looking brother. Rage, hate and darkness seem to be his thing.

[Frederick22]

I think its just as likely Nidhogg is corrupt. All we have seen strongly points to him being a enemy dragon. He is certainly been portrayed as very hostile and full of hate, particularly with the impression we get from the Dragoon quests. Hell, he even looks like a nasty black spiky dragon as opposed to his apparently more benevolent falcor looking brother. Rage, hate and darkness seem to be his thing.

Rage, hate and darkness. Tooo much darkness and like a slight demon looking.
Coincidence? I dont think so >_<

[Cilia]

It's pretty clear Nidhogg is corrupt and we'll probably have to put him down by the end of Heavensward, but we don't know what drove him to such a state of madness. Popular theory and the in-game explanation is it's because Haldrath gouged his eye out and took it as a trophy, but that's just Ishgard's side of the story. If there's anything Ysayle's right about, it's that we (and all of Ishgard) are unthinkingly fighting a war we don't know the purpose of.

Besides which, history is written by the winners. So while nothing in-game hints that my whole "Shiva hypothesis" is true, it's also possible it is true and all of that was covered up by the Holy See to solidify their grasp on power. A curious thing is that Ishgard's founder is "King Thordan I," while it's current ruler is "Archbishop Thordan VII." Hmm...

[Frederick22]

Besides which, history is written by the winners. So while nothing in-game hints that my whole "Shiva hypothesis" is true, it's also possible it is true and all of that was covered up by the Holy See to solidify their grasp on power. A curious thing is that Ishgard's founder is "King Thordan I," while it's current ruler is "Archbishop Thordan VII." Hmm...

Yea on the past, or that's what it seems to be. Ishgard 's first leaders were kings, but now the Holy see ( is the church, right? ) has the total goverment control. What did change? When it was desided that the church have that kind of power?

[WyrahFhurrst]

Yea on the past, or that's what it seems to be. Ishgard 's first leaders were kings, but now the Holy see ( is the church, right? ) has the total goverment control. What did change? When it was desided that the church have that kind of power?

Likely when the first king died from dragon-mind-powers and his son took to war against him. Halone led the people there, and likely the people turned to a more religious doctrine with the loss of their king. Haldrath probably became the first Archbishop, leaving the other four houses to be the royal houses for the new city.

[Frederick22]

Likely when the first king died from dragon-mind-powers and his son took to war against him. Halone led the people there, and likely the people turned to a more religious doctrine with the loss of their king. Haldrath probably became the first Archbishop, leaving the other four houses to be the royal houses for the new city.

Hard to imagine that the first Azure Dragoon become the first Archbishop.

[WyrahFhurrst]

Hard to imagine that the first Azure Dragoon become the first Archbishop.

Is it? A religion based on martial combat with another group may have one of its prized heroes become its leader, and then his bloodline become the head of that religion.

[lololink]

The fact that Thordan was the name of the father of the first dragoon and that it's the name taken by the pope is a sign that it might be related, the pope could also be elected but still Haldrath could have been the first pope.