ishgard

[Cilia]

Dragonsong suggests Shiva (the historical one, not the Primal summoned in her supposed likeness) was the original ruler of Ishgard and was on friendly terms with the dragons until something created a rift between them. She then sacrificed herself in some manner to prevent the Dragonsong War, but it was for naught because of some manner of treachery.

So... no, I don't think the real Shiva wanted any of this.

[Frederick22]

Dragonsong suggests Shiva (the historical one, not the Primal summoned in her supposed likeness) was the original ruler of Ishgard and was on friendly terms with the dragons until something created a rift between them. She then sacrificed herself in some manner to prevent the Dragonsong War, but it was for naught because of some manner of treachery.

So... no, I don't think the real Shiva wanted any of this.

Ohh I didnt understand the song that good. I could only understand that the song talk of 2 sides that are fighting and killing themselfs for nothing. That both sides are just being puppets ( the meaning of that there is no one on the throne ) and living a lie.
Bu that shiva was supposed to be the original ruler? o.o what about Thordan and Haldralh ?

[lololink]

Dragonsong suggests Shiva (the historical one, not the Primal summoned in her supposed likeness) was the original ruler of Ishgard and was on friendly terms with the dragons until something created a rift between them. She then sacrificed herself in some manner to prevent the Dragonsong War, but it was for naught because of some manner of treachery.

So... no, I don't think the real Shiva wanted any of this.

Shiva couldn't have been the first leader of Ishgard, the first leaders were Thordan that had a vision from Halone telling him to take Ishgard as their land, they encounter Niddhog that told them "Get out of my mountain !", they got mad, Thordan died, his son, Haldrath, attacked Niddhog and took his eye, becoming the first dragoon and the leader of Ishgard.

[Samcaesar]

Shiva couldn't have been the first leader of Ishgard, the first leaders were Thordan that had a vision from Halone telling him to take Ishgard as their land, they encounter Niddhog that told them "Get out of my mountain !", they got mad, Thordan died, his son, Haldrath, attacked Niddhog and took his eye, becoming the first dragoon and the leader of Ishgard.

Maybe that's just what the Thordan line wants you to think :P Maybe spin it from a tale of rebels causing troubles between the dragons and Ishgardians into a righteous story where Haldrath avenged his father and began Ishgard in his honor.

[Belhi]

Maybe that's just what the Thordan line wants you to think :P Maybe spin it from a tale of rebels causing troubles between the dragons and Ishgardians into a righteous story where Haldrath avenged his father and began Ishgard in his honor.

Well then one thing to ask is who exactly did the Warrior of Light take the form of at the end of the DRG Job story

cause it was an Elezen Male in shining Dragoon armour. That was the 'light' that banished Nidhogg's dark rancor.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Dunno! Echo causes some weird stuff. I haven't seen the Dragoon's job quests yet (DoM 4 lyf!). Perhaps Haldrath was actually avenging his father, but Thordan isn't some innocent old man and purposely caused trouble due to Ascian influences?

[Cilia]

Well, we don't know. That's just an inference from the song, lol.

[Frederick22]

Well, we don't know. That's just an inference from the song, lol.

This just pure speculation and there is 99.9% change that I might get it wrong. I'm doing my best based just on the dragonsong trailer ( the part of the echo memorie ).
Could it be that Shiva was original one of the 12 knights? or this was started just beacuse jealousy or a personal vendetta( again I could be wrong again, on the echo vision, the DRG ( dunno who he is, maybe haldralh i dont know) it was going to do something deep personal and the orther knights where like totally oposed )

[Belhi]

Well, it's complicated. While we are entering the war on Ishgard's side, and both Aymeric and House Fortemps are definitely our allies, Middy implies there's a dark secret behind the war. What secret that is, and how people react to it, could easily turn everything on its head. I seriously doubt we'll end up enemies of the state in Ishgard too, so my best theory right now is that Aymeric and House Fortemps might go apostate and we'll end up deposing Archbishop Thordan VII (Ishgard Pope). Nidhogg is definitely going to be antagonistic, though.

I agree, both sides are being played against each other, and ending the war without destroying either side is paramount.

Anyway yeah, Ysayle was pretty clearly just being played by the Ascians. While she has the Echo, Nabriales pretty much tells you outright he taught her the summoning ritual, and it doesn't make sense to summon a Primal if she's wholly on our side. From the look of things we'll reconcile our differences in Heavensward, but I at least want to bop her on the head for being so damn stupid with the whole Shiva affair.

The Truth shall set them free.....

Yeah I kind of want Ysayle to get taken down a peg or too. She is a little too certain of herself and I kind of want to see her eat a little humble pie otherwise I think I will find her insufferable, ally or no. :P

I also heard the idea that the song might also refer to a partnership between dragons and man long ago in the past that events lead to break. I personally have a feeling the Allag might have been involved in that. Whatever happened is really personal for the dragons. Perhaps they were betrayed to the Allag. The song also seems to suggest that Shiva's efforts were betrayed, but not by who. I'm wondering if it was in fact Nidhogg, full of hate towards humans, that shot down any chance of peace.

This leads me to think that the whole Dragonsong war might not only be to sow chaos but to keep those two groups from allying. Perhaps that Alliance is something the Ascians really want to keep from happening.

[Cilia]

Shiva could be one of the Knights Twelve, but I don't recall seeing a distinctly female figure in that scene. Could be, not ruling it out, but don't know yet.

Anyway, 99.9% positive Allag isn't linked to the Dragonsong War. At least not directly. The 6th Astral Era went on for ~1500 years IIRC, and the Dragonsong War's only been going on for 1000 years. Allag was wiped out in the 4th Umbral Calamity, IIRC, and we don't know how long ago that was... so it's pretty much impossible for the War to directly be Allag's fault. Not saying Allag has nothing to do with it, but I just don't see a connection right now...

War could be to prevent an alliance, but I always felt it was more about killing lots of people and/or getting more Primals summoned / created. Time will tell.