PLD is a very boring class compared to WAR.

[Omskahn]

I don't get why you need to add snide comments to all your posts. Whatever, moving passed that.

I personally just wish that there was more depth to the job than there currently is, as it's objectively pretty shallow right now. I like the class a lot, and it was 1st level 50. But I realized after switching to warrior how true all the detractor's points are. If you like that playstyle, then g4u. Many others would prefer to play a paladin where you aren't a flashing, shielded, immovable wall and not much else.

[Edellis]

So, you're saying PLD needs a fun mechanic?

He's a defensive class with a lot of mitigation abilities. Being a defensive class, OF COURSE he gets a lot of defensive buffs, while only one offensive buff.

Regardless, I can't really see the point of this thread except for you to state your opinion. Maybe include in some discussion or thoughts on how to improve PLD to be your level of "fun" class?

Sure! Simply based off the way other classes work

1) Change Flash to something else, maybe some kind of magical circle blast wave or spinning slash or something that feels deserving of enmity and MP usage. Give it crappy on-hit damage, like 25 potency, idk.

2) Shield Bash > Can now automatically toggle Shield Swipe

3) Sword Oath > Adds traits to sword skills when active:

Flash > Now deals DoT damage, like 50 potency. Somewhat low duration.
Riot Blade > Now applies bleed DoT to enemy.
Halone > Nothing really needs to change here?
Scorn > Now adds full tick damage on-hit as well as DoT. (like thundercloud)
Spirits Within > further increases base damage, by amount of Gladiator DoTs on target. (now Flash, Riot, and Scorn)

4) Shield Oath > Increases block rate by 60%, Receive 10% less damage, output 20% less damage, enmity increase, adds traits to shield skills:

Shield Swipe > also reduces incoming damage by 10% for a duration.
Bulwark > increases block rate by 40%
Shield Lob > Pacification

I dunno. Just add some synergy to the stances, give paladin OTs a burst combo and some DPS to play around with, and give Shield Oath PLD something to manage other than pop all their CDs when their HP starts falling too fast. I don't necessarily think this is "better", just more...engaging.


Again, i dont think there's anything wrong with PLD being a mitigation tank, or that it's bad at its job, other than its current design being boring. It's very efficient at its job. My issue with the class is that it has no mechanics built into it. Paladin has Sword Oath and Shield Oath, but unlike other classes, using those stances don't change anything about the way you play the class, it just passively makes what you're already doing more efficient, and you're only ever doing one thing. Even with Sword/Shield, Paladin is literally the same class from level 26 to level 50, and then to endgame. There are no abilities you acquire on Paladin that change your rotation, or allow you access to different ones.

[Shuon]

Agree with you. But on these points:

1. Flash: I still recall how much I loved and how much I loathed overpower. Because in e earlier days Blm and whm actually bothered to sleep the adds to mitigate damage and flash could grab hate without waking them up. No idea why no1 does that now anymore in lower dungeons

2. Shield swipe is a v interesting skill that's v underused. It pacifies and doesn't use tp I believe and has good damage without ruining the combos

3. U also have stoneskin to 'spice things up' - it really helps the healer too

But otherwise I agree.. I wish sword and shield oath could be switched out without mp cost and breaking combo as well as greater cure potencies.

[Omskahn]

Suggestions

Exactly. Abilities that synergize and combo off of each other, not just mitigation stacked on top of mitigation over and over. Right now I think the only two abilities that even kind of work together out of combos are bulwark and shield swipe. And like the guy above said, that makes it an interesting skill. If pally had more of that, like:

-Circle of scorn having its DoT dmg increased, but you could pop with another skill to trade the DoT effect for huge enmity gain
-Stacking bonus for each enemy targeting you, attacking you, near you, whatever.
-Abilities that give you stacks, or some minor resource to be spent elsewhere...

Just something so you have more to do than just RoH, flash and not die... I've honestly been thinking about this a lot recently and came up with a thought - Maybe SE actually wanted to the Paladin to be this shallow as a way for players that don't want to be that engaged in playing to be able to tank as well?

[otarolgam]

And this is surprising... how?

Paladin/Knight is basically just a "Sit there and be a wall that pokes fun at the crazy kid in class."

Warrior is ACTUALLY like a freaking Tank. Takes hits... Deals it back.

This isn't new.

But hopefully Heavensward will give PLDs some new quirks.

[Zfz]

Well it's very obvious that the design concept for the PLD includes "simplicity", which many would say is just the "glass is half full" view.

The problem with making the PLD more "engaging" and more "complex" is that it takes a very important variety out of the tanking role---the simple and straight-forward variety. Like how the BLM is the simple and straight-forward variety of ranged DPS, PLD is the same for tanking. And there's nothing wrong with it.

If you want engaging, satisfying tanking play, pick the Warrior. If you want straight-forward, robust tanking play, pick the PLD. That's just how the two jobs are designed.

Please always remember, PLD is not a boring class. It is just that YOU find it boring because it doesn't fit the play style that you enjoy.

[otarolgam]

... Like how the BLM is the simple and straight-forward variety of ranged DPS...

Whoa, whoa... Black Mage, simple? I've tried Thaumaturge. The juggling needed to keep your DPS up is a bit staggering...

I'd say Archer is the most Bread and Butter. Shoot things while moving and use offensive cooldowns to make your pew-pews stronger.

Guess it's probably why I like PLD and BRD......

[Omskahn]

Please always remember, PLD is not a boring class. It is just that YOU find it boring because it doesn't fit the play style that you enjoy.

Please always remember, PLD is a boring class. It is just that YOU don't find it boring because it fits the play style that you enjoy.

Considering I can just flip what's subjective and objective about the point you're trying to make to make it serve my own purposes, kinda defeats the purpose of presenting them as such.

[Zfz]

It doesn't. Actually using that argument means you agree with the concept that it is a playstyle difference.

Eating meat is bad. No it's lifestyle choice, it's just that YOU don't find it appealing.
Not eating meat is bad. It's just that YOU don't find it appealing because it doesn't fit your lifestyle.
Both statements agree that it's a lifestyle choice. Which in turn invalidate the good/bad argument.

Thank you so much for swallowing the bait so readily. :3

It's a play style choice. Not liking it just means it wasn't designed for you.

[SpookyGhost]

PLD being boring is subjective. This is true.

However, I would like to hear what people find engaging about PLD, as a counterbalance.

As a starting point:

I do find PLD boring generally speaking, but I also enjoy leading a group on PLD as I don't have to focus on my rotation and can more easily focus on the mechanics affecting everyone else.

I'm not sure if this is really "enjoying" or being engaged by the PLD job, though. This is more of a consequence of the PLD job being so unengaging that I can focus on other things. That's not necessarily a bad thing for a tank class, but it definitely makes PLD as a standalone seem very dull.

Other than that, I personally don't find anything interesting about PLD. I am curious what other opinions there are in favor of 2.0 PLD being a fun/engaging job, though, so if anyone could fill me in on their thoughts as a PLD main (or PLD sub or w/e) I'd appreciate that.

e: It seems like there's a bit of discussion in favor of PLD going on already - mainly that it's simplicity is a positive thing. I guess this sort of ties in with my thoughts on it, contributing to making it an ideal raid leader job. I think that the simplicity of the job is to a bit of an extreme though - as much as people like to theorycraft WAR, it isn't actually that "complex". It's more like an active form of PLD that happens to have 3 extra buttons to press in your rotation.

Something I've noticed is that PLD is one of 2-3 jobs in the game that don't have "mechanics". Let me explain: BLM has Umbral -> Astral, BRD has songs, MNK has GL, SMN has Aetherflow/pet management, NIN has Ninjutsus, WAR has Wrath, and SCH has Aetherflow/pet management. SMN and SCH overlap a bit but these mechanics react in different ways for both jobs.

DRG, WHM, and PLD don't really have "mechanics". DRG is straight DPS, it follows a rotation and pops CDs when they're available. The unique thing about DRG is it's Jumps, but they're not really anything you have to manage. WHM is a... healer, it generally just... has the ability to heal. It is a bit reliant on HoTs, and I guess if there was a bit more focus on that than there is now you could consider that the "mechanic", but for now I'd say it's similar to DRG. PLD has a basic threat combo combined with a debuff and defensive CDs - it has nothing beyond this.

The main problem with these 3 jobs is that they have no "flavor" in terms of actually playing them. Sure, DRGs are cool and the animations are cool. WHM is iconic and everybody loves that robe. PLD you've got like a million RPG fans who love sword and board. But when you play them they just feel like... babies first trip into tank/healer/dps town? Maybe that was the intention, that these 3 classes were meant to be stepping stones for people to branch out into other jobs. I dunno, it's just really strange to me that people enjoy the simple vanilla jobs when you've got jobs that can actually be engaging, complex, interesting, etc etc.

Contradictory to all that, I actually do enjoy DRG and I find merit in WHM as healing in this game is the only thing that can really change from attempt to attempt. But PLD... something about it is just... I dunno. I guess it really is just the 123 thing, it really gets you into this drumming mindset where your brain just shuts off until it realizes "oh yeah, I should pop a CD here", and then you drone off some more. The more I reflect on it, the more I feel like people enjoy the simplicity of PLD because they don't want to put in the effort to do the same thing on a more "complex" job. Honestly, XIV jobs as a whole are pretty simple, I just think that PLD showcases it to an extreme and really makes you go "wow, this really is as bare bones as it can get".

I've sort of lost the point of this edit the more I type, maybe that has something to do with it being 1AM, but I can summarize with: I find PLD's simplicity really, really extreme and maybe it's just that this job is better suited to people who either:

1. Want to raid lead and need a job that you literally can barely pay attention to and perform near perfectly or
2. Want to be A Tank but don't want to put in any extra work beyond that, so gravitate to the job who can get that done with as little effort as possible.

I personally have no problem with this. Obviously everyone plays the game for different reasons, and I think PLD would definitely appeal to casual players the most, which was needed for a sword and board class. I do like the direction they're going, and I feel like the complexity they're adding is more of a stepping stool to introduce more ideas to PLD players.

This edit was longer than the original post, I really gotta stop typing now.