Do the Primals Know Each Other?

[Enkidoh]

Huh, I never really thought about it. I mean, between the whole Ascian, "nurture the gifted, make a primal" meeting and Urianger accusing them directly, I just took it for granted that it led to Shiva due to Nabriales monitoring the whole thing and then taking credit for it a patch later. At least, I assumed he took credit for it. How do you read the phrase, ...?

I had just read Estinien as saying that Iceheart was doing the dirty work of being a thorn in Ishgard's side; as in she organized the heretics, she brought down the outer barriers, she led the attempted recovery of the Eye, etc. I thought he was calling Nidhogg a coward that as soon as he had others willing to head the assault, he stopped risking coming himself. Again, though, I've never thought about any of this in-depth because I'd taken the obviousness (to me) for granted. Wouldn't be the first time I'd assumed wrong and not noticed, if indeed that is the case.

I admit I started having doubts myself about that very idea no sooner had I actually posted that. I guess it just struck me as odd that Estinien would specifically mention Iceheart as being a minion of Nidhogg when, as an Echo user, shouldn't she be actually immune to such influence? I know she's the leader of the Heretics, but, aren't the heretics meant to be effectively tempered by the dragons (like a Primal)? Who is manipulating whom here?

I guess maybe I'm just looking for things that aren't actually there, but it sounded an interesting idea no one had considered anyway.

Wonder why Garuda and Ifrit's themes don't have phase transitions post-Ultimate. When i first heard Titan's drums and guitar change up during Earthen Fury, I was like "Shi* is about to go down!!" But for some reason Ifri and Garuda's themes neither have lyrics nor a change in rhythm post ultimate. Also i kinda wish the Pony's themes started their primal's themes from the begining. Like Shiva's for example, it doesn't play the orchestrated part when you ride her pony, it just starts from the indi pop-punk part.

Ifrit's theme was done by Nobuo Uematsu, and I suspect they left it that way out of respect for his work. Soken did make Garuda's theme, but Soken's said in the past that Titan's theme was the first time they really just said, hey, do whatever you want, so it's possible that he had specific instructions. If Ifrit and Garuda's themes were remade today, there's no telling what they'd sound like.

I'm pretty sure Primal Judgement had originally been planned to be a default theme for all Primal battles back when 1.0 was still in development, even though the Ifrit battle in 1.0 wasn't added until after Tanaka was replaced by Yoshi-P as producer and the rest of the development team was reshuffled, the theme had already been given a public teaser with it's orchestral arrangement being performed at the Distant Worlds concert before the actual battle was made available in the game - that and it's very title (Primal Judgement) all but screams this was meant to be a default theme used for all Primal battles. Also Ifrit and Garuda's fights were originally 1.0 content and by that stage of 1.0's lifespan it had basically become a test bed for ideas planned for ARR, so it's likely as Soken had just stepped up to replace Uematsu as FFXIV's composer and sound director, he decided to 'play it safe' with Garuda's theme Fallen Angel with the one track playing over the entirety of the battle.

It should be noted that the third and final 1.0 Primal battle (Good King Moggle Mog the XIIth) actually begun the 'different themes for different stages of a battle' tradition, starting with the purely instrumental Seven Jesters before segueing into the eponymous vocal theme. Incidentally, Titan and Leviathan's Primal fights were originally planned for 1.0 but were never actually implemented, due to the terrible 2011 Japanese earthquake and tsunami - SE felt it would have been in very poor taste to feature Primals which were embodiments of those forces of nature that caused that terrible disaster. But I digress...

Damnit, we really need a specific Music and Sound forum added. Please SE!

Also the Ascians are much like the Lucavi from FFT, appearing before desparate souls and bestowing upon them a great but ruinous power. They are trying to revive their god. Remember how the Lucavi in FFT were trying to revive Ultima? Then you fight Hashmal, the Lucavi of Leo at the end, he says they needed a large amount of bloodshed to summon Ultima, then he kills himself becuse they were conveniently just shy of a bit more blood to fully summon her. I think they're repeating that theme here. The Ascians help various factions to summon Primals to incite death and bloodshed through war which likely grants power to Zodiark.

12 Crystal Braves, 12 Zodiac Signs, "The Twelve", "Twelve Ascians", (after this exp there will be 12 Soul Stones, which look similar to the Zodiac Stones in FFT). Then there's Zodiark/Ophiucus which was the 13th sign, perhaps the player will be the 13th "Brave/Ascian" or some other shocking revelation.

If I could pin a gold star on you, I would. I've long suspected that those who lingered on XII instead of moving on to the XII-inspired retcons of PSX Tactics have spent too much time digging in the wrong garden. Without evidence, though, who am I to make such a claim? Usually I just vented to Havik about it, lol.

Hah, I admit I never even picked up on that similarity - but now that you mention it, the Ascians are more like FFT's Crystal Braves/Lucavi. Although given the fact the development team has already shot down direct connections with the Ivalice games and instead have stated that they're simply connected in name only, take of that what you will.