Extreme 4 & Savage 24 please :)

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Well they did add a challenge with Coil Savage, but apparently no one wants to do it.

[Felis]

Well, it's not like this would be forcing people to do them. Steps of Faith was forced, since it was part of the MSQ. These would just be extras.

Like Pharos Sirius?

[Yuri_Hyuga]

Well they did add a challenge with Coil Savage, but apparently no one wants to do it.

1) I know plenty of ppl who do it on my server alone, myself included.

2) another case of faulty reward structure (should've given dyeable SCOB sets from it at least).

Like Pharos Sirius?

Pre-Nerf Pharos was problematic for numerous other reasons related to its difficulty, but not having to do with its difficulty in an isolated sense (or vacuum).

Design-wise, it fit into a content type which was historically (and even horizontally in the case of the other two dungeons released with it) not built to be as difficult. It made for a bad outlier.

For being meant to be on par with those others, it wasn't & there was another issue--dungeon roulette. People felt unfairly shafted if they got into a pug for the much harder dungeon that rewarded the same & was less pug-friendly than others of its kind.

It's even evident, by design, that SE didn't intend (and never will) for this sort of outlier.

Not if its meant to be in the "hard" dungeon difficulty tier. That's just nonsensical.

Y'all have to look at this from a developer/producer perspective & take Pre-Nerf Pharo's difficulty out of isolation.

Ex Dungeons would create an appropriate context for harder formats which aren't forced upon players. Right now, that context doesn't exist (and obviously isn't meant to yet).

Just can't support this as much as I would like...

Preformed Alliances.

Besides, for game health, it's probably best these formats be premade only. There's a reason Savage SCOB isn't on the Duty Finder.

[Saccharin]

SApparently they are increasing the pace of combat significantly in Heavensward. Can't say if they'll be reducing the base GCD but it sounds like they might (and they really should). Besides, we'll have loads more skill/spell speed in i170~ & more TP regenerators than ever (plus, sspeed is being enhanced somehow too... hopeful this means faster TP ticks passively).

usually MMOS like this increase the required combat rating require to have the same effect when you level. I do remember being told that speed stat will be more important but we've had nothing recent. The planned EU servers will help European players greatly.

[Yuri_Hyuga]

usually MMOS like this increase the required combat rating require to have the same effect when you level. I do remember being told that speed stat will be more important but we've had nothing recent. The planned EU servers will help European players greatly.

Fair point. They did however recently reiterate that the pace of game-play would be increased significantly in interview(s). So I guess we'll just have to wait & see!

Either way, APM isn't the only way to deal with mechanics.

[Selli]

It's hard enough to get 8 people to do Savage coil, and back when i90 was the ilevel cap, trying to do Garuda -> Ifrit EX for the weekly went about as well as pugging t12 and t13 does now. Now we all out-gear extreme primals that it's not really that big of a deal. Just as we all over-gear LotA and ST which were much more challenging at their respected ilevels.

It'd be incredibly difficult to gather 24 people for a savage/extreme/whatever 24-man raid and expect all of them to successfully preform flawlessly, you'd probably end up wiping to the same thing over and over again more often than getting anywhere because it'd be so easy for a couple of people to mess up. Not to mention the amount of people and mechanics going on would be horribly confusing and overwhelming to meet the difficulty of savage content (could you imagine being in a TS3/Mumble/Raidcall/whatever with 23 other people and trying to clear t7 savage at the same time?). I mean, you see what happens in current WoD when half of an alliance goes down? Everything can easily go to sh*t because you no longer have the people necessary for the mechanics.

So no. Please no.

[Yuri_Hyuga]

@Selli, it'd be optional. If you don't have 24 people to premake a WoD Savage, you'd have the original WoD to enjoy as you please.

24 Man Savage would be for larger FC's or conjoining statics for some challenging fun.

And if 8 & 24 Man Savage's aren't for you because of lacking the numbers, you'd have the 4 Man Extreme's to enjoy.

It appears that you'd like to do 8 Man Savage Coil, that you enjoy a challenge, so 4 Man Extreme's are perfect for you.

Also, I envision Savage 24 Man's to be more in line with either Pre-Echo SCOB... not so much in line with Savage Coil current.

As you are correct in that it is much harder to coordinate 24 players than it is 8, having them be exactly equal in difficulty would be a bit overbearing.

I agree.

If it helps, I'd much rather development effort be put into 4 Man Extreme's than 24 Man Savage's for the reasons you listed (if having to choose).

[randysquirrel]

It's not often I completely U-turn my opinion, but I guess if it was pre-made group it could work

could you imagine being in a TS3/Mumble/Raidcall/whatever with 23 other people and trying to clear t7 savage at the same time?

And this makes me want to try it even more lol

[Ramzal]

Here's difficulty for you:

In order to log in the game a 28 button passcode must be input via keyboard only and within a 12 second interval. Also the passcode is randomized through hints placed in bags of Kellogg's cereal, written in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.

[Xatsh]

It'd be incredibly difficult to gather 24 people for a savage/extreme/whatever 24-man raid and expect all of them to successfully preform flawlessly, you'd probably end up wiping to the same thing over and over again more often than getting anywhere because it'd be so easy for a couple of people to mess up. Not to mention the amount of people and mechanics going on would be horribly confusing and overwhelming to meet the difficulty of savage content (could you imagine being in a TS3/Mumble/Raidcall/whatever with 23 other people and trying to clear t7 savage at the same time?). I mean, you see what happens in current WoD when half of an alliance goes down? Everything can easily go to sh*t because you no longer have the people necessary for the mechanics.

In older mmos people did this all the time. Sometimes with 40+ppl.

It is not that hard at all. WOD is made up of pugs, which will always be vastly subpar to an organized group.