Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Sapphic]

You...probably weren't around for the early days of the game I take it.

I played EQ2 from early access after switching with what SOE did with SWGs combat upgrade. Played the first expansion also. There was a very linear progression path. Even to raid you had to have a specific level of weapon to be even able to hit the thing.

I do remember having to literally walk from Fallen Gate to freeport because of all the copprt coins (before they auto upgraded to a higher currency :P Or the trains in the gate, party running towards the exit with half the zone trailing behind, which, on their way back to spawn slaughtered all the XP parties on the way :P

Shared XP debt too :S

[Sapphic]

Huh? Arent you one of those in this thread that are arguing because of your own bias , rather in response of arguments?

I gave realistic reasons behind my arguements against them. Developer time in creating content to put the extra gear in that has to be on a level of difficulty with the gear they are adding to. So that would be 3-4 raids for example, increased dungeons, and other content. Content that takes time to design, create and implement. Plus each set has to be multiplied by the different races to make the gear for each of them. Cant put a Roe in lalafell sized armor. Which increases the development time significantly.

Not to mention designing of the stats on the sets, balance between to the sets to not make any useless, otherwise there is no point in adding them. Which involves extended testing.

If you are ok with content updates once a year, good for you. FFXI had extended periods between content updates by making the requirements insanely high with lock outs. (Im looking at you relic and empy weapons. Or putting the drop rates below 5%. Less than 2% for some. With high requirements to even attempt the content with the insanely low drop chance. Dynamis, Salvage, Nyzul, Assaults, etc, You were running the exact same content for literally years.

I prefer new scenery, new gear and new mobs to punch in the face every 3 months over having to grind the exact same content 1000s of times.

Would be very surprised if the majority would be against that idea.

It's all nice and danady to ask for stuff. But without actually looking into what it would entail.......

Also, heres an update for you. I'm playing and enjoying FFXIV for what it is, not for what it isn't. Why would I want to change it to "EQ2" or FFXI when I have an accoutn with FFXI I can play, and I gave up on EQ2 years ago when it changed from the game I enjoyed, to not liking it.

Gotta laugh, players accuse FFXIV of being a clone (where in reality it is heading in it's own direction) then turn around and ask for the devs to turn it into a clone of something else.

Your turn.

[Catsby]

snip

Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

[Gilthas]

Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

You know, I also worry about content getting outdated, specially for new players.

But on the other hand, I also agree that it's much better to get new content to do every 3 months, than doing the same stuff for years due to lockouts/poor drop rates. Because that's how you keep the old stuff relevant.

[Sapphic]

Nobody is asking FFXIV to be a clone of another game. They just want high level content to stay relevant for more than 6 months. As player character strength increases the amount of meaningful content dries up. Sure we get new dungeons, trials, and raids but they just replace the previous additions.

So you want to be running the exact same content for a year? 2 years? How long do you think content should be relevant until we can move onto new stuff?

In my opinion 6 months is fine, it keeps things fresh quicker instead of having to farm the same thing over and over and over and over. Also the relevancy of one piece of content is based totally on how long it takes to get the drops from it. If it takes 1 month to get your drops, then the relevancy of that content is 1 month for you. The only way to extend it is to

1) guarantee that it lasts a minimum amount of time by making it require a certain number of runs for a form of currency, and to extend that, limit the times it can be run. 150,000 tokens, 1000 tokens a clear, one run per 24 hours. Guarantees it will last 150 days.
2) make the items have an extrememly low drop rate. eg pony drops from the extreme primals before they increased the drop rate or even lower. But that puts the length of time that it will be relevant down to player luck.

If they started implementing either or both of those ideas for all forms of progression to extend the relevancy of content, how long do you think the playerbase will stick around?

[Xatsh]

I prefer new scenery, new gear and new mobs to punch in the face every 3 months over having to grind the exact same content 1000s of times.

Would be very surprised if the majority would be against that idea.

If you put it like that.

Or you can put it like this.

Would you want 1 thing to do every 6 months that progresses your character at top tier? Or 12 things to do that progress your character at the top tier?

Would you want the option to do 1 of 20 pieces of content? Or have to choose between 2-3 peices of content every 6 months?

Would you prefer all your work to be negated every 6 months? Or would you prefer it to last 1-2yrs?

DO you want 8hrs of relevant content per week or do you want 60hrs of relevant content per week to do?

FFXI you could do the same content many times, but they added new content it is not like horizontal = no new content. It is just more content added to the already existing content pool.

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

[Sapphic]

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

It worked so well that it didn't have to go free to play...... oh wait!

[Sapphic]

If you put it like that.

Or you can put it like this.

Would you want 1 thing to do every 6 months that progresses your character at top tier? Or 12 things to do that progress your character at the top tier?

Those extra 11 pieces of content have to be created. So would you happy with content updates once every 3 years? Based on 3 month cycle we are currently at.

Would you want the option to do 1 of 20 pieces of content? Or have to choose between 2-3 peices of content every 6 months?

Now we are upto 20 pieces of content. same question as before, but instead 12x3 months, change that 20 x 3 months. Remember they are making content for all aspects. MSQ, 4 person dungeons, 24 person raids, plus the primals and the 8 person raid in a 6 month period, I am being generous giving 3 months.

Would you prefer all your work to be negated every 6 months? Or would you prefer it to last 1-2yrs?

I never knew playing games was work, I always saw it as a pastime for enjoyment. I get paid to go to work, where I work. Yes, I'm fine with replacing gear every 6 months. Or I can even use glamor to keep the look of tier of gear I prefer. *gasp*

DO you want 8hrs of relevant content per week or do you want 60hrs of relevant content per week to do?

I can always find things to do in FFXIV, just because others only focus on one part doesn't mean everyone does. I've 4 person dungeons, weekly CT quest, treasure maps, crafting, harvesting, hunting difficult to acquire furniture for my house. Doing fun runs with static,eg 4 BLM stone vigil hard, 8 BLM castrum etc. Golden saucer with chocobo racing etc.

FFXI you could do the same content many times, but they added new content it is not like horizontal = no new content. It is just more content added to the already existing content pool.

It isn't that you could, you had no choice if you wanted to improve your gear.Nyzul didn't get fun after the 100th time. It got annoying.

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

And to reiterate, all this extra content you want adding takes development time. Also much less content was added to FFXI over the same time period. a HUGE part of the content added to FFXI was copy pasted. Aby, same maps as the normal zones. Dyna, same maps reused, WotG, most maps were reused with a few new ones. If you really break it down FFXI did not have that much content for the time it has been around. It was extended by over the top timesinks. Without those timesinks, not counting JPMs for certain missions (ToAU) the whole of the missions for all the expacs can be cleared in a week. I know, I've done it. Then it is just a matter of repeating content for a ridiculous amount of times to obtain gear.

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

Horizontal 10 char... Horizontal until expansions, keep relic weapons upgrading on their own paths. Relic, Mythic, Emperial... might as well end result give them different moves or enhancements.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

We do not want a ffxi clone, we want content that is lasting. We want things that are not treated like MOBA seasons. We want to be able to log in and not have to wait for reset each week. We want to be able to log in and have more then Coil soon to be Alexander for top tier progression.

I couldn't agree more, we have this level sync feature built into the game to keep content relevant even after gear levels rise, but they don't even really use it except for content less than lvl 50. I also think Heavensward shouldn't make 2.0 obsolete, that is someting WoW does and it's a terrible design.

2.0 should be just as fun for people joining the game after heavensward, as it was for everyone in this forum.