Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Kiara1]

I think it would be better with horizontal gear. Cause right now everyone just gets the highest tomestone gear or coil gear and thats it. Theres no point in stats at all in this game. And tbh theres no point in gearing up either because the gear you got a month a go is trash when new gear comes anyway.
I think the gear treadmill is getting boring and I wonder how long it takes until majority of the playerbase feels the same way.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

GW2 has no "Horizontal System" Berserker gear is the best gear due to the kind of content it is. Horizontal System doesn't work without roles. So - no, its not a game we want.

Horizontal System shouldn't be balanced, it should be around the kind of playstyle you want. However this is a PvE game - Does Bahamut suddenly go on the forums and care about who has a bigger advantage in stats or crunched a bit better? Lol.

Anyways.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-some-ideas%21

This is a perfect example of fun Horizontal Progression gear.

[Craiger]

GW2 has no "Horizontal System" Berserker gear is the best gear due to the kind of content it is. Horizontal System doesn't work without roles. So - no, its not a game we want.

Horizontal System shouldn't be balanced, it should be around the kind of playstyle you want. However this is a PvE game - Does Bahamut suddenly go on the forums and care about who has a bigger advantage in stats or crunched a bit better? Lol.

Anyways.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-some-ideas%21

This is a perfect example of fun Horizontal Progression gear.

I don't get what you mean... Are you saying that because Bahamut doesn't care about balancing, nobody would complain? We already see many complains about balancing, even though FFXIV is one of the most balanced MMOs out there.

Most people (at least the ones doing endgame raids) wouldn't play a certain job if they aren't producing the amount of DPS, for example, that it should do.

Like I said in my previous post, you would just find a set of gear that is good, then there would be no reason to get new gear in the game ever... Unless they completely change the game to fit with this style of gear. Can imagine myself being bored to death after a year, still wearing pretty much the same gear as when I started, and raiding only giving me some glamour...

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I don't get what you mean... Are you saying that because Bahamut doesn't care about balancing, nobody would complain? We already see many complains about balancing, even though FFXIV is one of the most balanced MMOs out there.

Most people (at least the ones doing endgame raids) wouldn't play a certain job if they aren't producing the amount of DPS, for example, that it should do.

Like I said in my previous post, you would just find a set of gear that is good, then there would be no reason to get new gear in the game ever... Unless they completely change the game to fit with this style of gear. Can imagine myself being bored to death after a year, still wearing pretty much the same gear as when I started, and raiding only giving me some glamour...

Making gear with effects everyone can acquire fixes that. There will not be "one best set" it will be trade-offs and play-styles.

If you have that-of an easy choice in picking gear then its already failed.

I don't see any balance concerns with the game, people can argue for hours for example about War/PLD but both jobs are good, both jobs can beat the game. The only job right now that isn't balanced, is for example SMN. It needs a boost. Its getting a boost.

[Craiger]

Making gear with effects everyone can acquire fixes that. There will not be "one best set" it will be trade-offs and play-styles.

If you have that-of an easy choice in picking gear then its already failed.

I don't see any balance concerns with the game, people can argue for hours for example about War/PLD but both jobs are good, both jobs can beat the game. The only job right now that isn't balanced, is SMN. It needs a boost.

Balancing is good right now(except SMN), but you said you didn't want it to be balanced...

Even if there are no one best set, you would still be able to get a set that you can beat the whole game with for years to come...

You say it would work because of trade-offs, but if I put together a good combination that I think is balanced for my play style, then there would be no need for me to do any more content in the game. If there were better options for me to get later down the line of the game, then it would go against the whole definition of "Horizontal Progression". (and don't come with the argument of doing all content because it's fun, because that only lasts a month at most)

It's not a fair comparison either, because the current model would be better if there were special effects like that on gear too... Ideally you would want more armor, but you would want that in a horizontal model too.

Current stats might not be the most interesting, but would people really care about those different effects? Most people I see don't care about optimizing their gear, so why would people do it with a horizontal model? For there to be effects interesting enough for people to care, they would have to completely overhaul the whole game pretty much.

For me, I feel like the people who want vertical progression are materialistic and the people who want horizontal progression are hoarders.

I probably just insulted everyone saying that, but I don't really like either.
I like stuff like the Relic where you get one piece. It can be upgraded and customized.
I don't think that system has to have as much RNG grind as the relic does, and it could be tied into drops from raids to enhance.

I don't want a bunch of crap in my bags for situation gearing and limited sense of progression.
I don't want gear to be completely disposable every patch cycle either.

I guess I'll favor the 'standard' vertical progression as it is.
I think we could use some more interesting stats though.

This^

[Sapphic]

GW2 has no "Horizontal System" Berserker gear is the best gear due to the kind of content it is. Horizontal System doesn't work without roles. So - no, its not a game we want.

Horizontal System shouldn't be balanced, it should be around the kind of playstyle you want.

So you turn it from a game where all jobs are viable for all content to stacking the best job because they are no langer balanced with your idea, thus it turns into FFXI where, if you didnt have a geared FOTM job, you didn't get to clear the content?

And you wonder why people think your ideas are bad.....

It had those points, where at launch, PLD was more effective than WAR in blinding coil, so WAR was excluded. DRG was sub optimal in Final coil due to low magic resist and heavy magic damage AE, so they were excluded. They where fixed, they are perfectly viable now for all content. SMN is getting modified due it being less effective than BLM in a lot of content and thus will be as viable.

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

BTW GW2 sucks :P

[Nektulos-Tuor]

So you turn it from a game where all jobs are viable for all content to stacking the best job because they are no langer balanced with your idea, thus it turns into FFXI where, if you didnt have a geared FOTM job, you didn't get to clear the content?

And you wonder why people think your ideas are bad.....

It had those points, where at launch, PLD was more effective than WAR in blinding coil, so WAR was excluded. DRG was sub optimal in Final coil due to low magic resist and heavy magic damage AE, so they were excluded. They where fixed, they are perfectly viable now for all content. SMN is getting modified due it being less effective than BLM in a lot of content and thus will be as viable.

That sounds more like class issues then gear issues. It was fixed.

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

BTW GW2 sucks :P

I didn't say it didn't. However your talking about classes, not items. Of course a better class would be prefered, however that doesn't mean it cannot do it. I am sure Warrior at the time did something better then Paladin.

However, GW2 does suck. There was really no choice, berserker gear was just the best.

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

However, Everquest and FFXI are different games (very different) then FFXIV. I am saying it can work very well and make it very fun. Everquest II's unique gearing system is one of the reasons it was popular for a bit. "Oh? A game where I have choice in my character's design? I don't have to be like everyone else?"

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

Huh? I actually don't know anyone who plays it and never heard of the game. It apparently had 200k subscribers in 2006. That.. isn't very successful. I mean if it only had 200k in 2006, I'd imagine its like nothing now.

I mean, the SWG Emulator has more subscribers then that. "NOW"

Just because something still exists doesn't really mean its good. However - just because it doesn't have many players doesn't mean its bad either. I just... I don't hear anything of that game.

Which, isn't a good sign.

[Sapphic]

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

It worked so well that it didn't have to go free to play...... oh wait!