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  1. #1
    Player
    Catsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    85
    Character
    Catsby Cattington
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    Horizontal or neither.

    the current gear treadmill discourages the one of the game's strongest and most unique features; all classes on one character. I stopped playing more than 2 jobs once the tomestone nonsense got out of hand. I don't mind collecting a set of gear for each job. I do mind collecting a set of gear for each job every few months. f that.

    edit; spelling
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    kyuven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    2,130
    Character
    Chen Kotomi
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Catsby View Post
    Horizontal or neither.

    the current gear treadmill discourages the one of the game's strongest and most unique features; all classes on one character. I stopped playing more than 2 jobs once the tomestone nonsense got out of hand. I don't mind collecting a set of gear for each job. I do mind collecting a set of gear for each job every few months. f that.

    edit; spelling
    That's...actually precisely why they do it.
    They need to make things more difficult or players complain.
    They need rewarding, meaningful content or players complain.
    Thus, they stagger content and make it progressive.
    If you don't like it...hate to say it, but you probably won't be happy with where the game will be going.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shuon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    526
    Character
    Shu'on Vana'diel
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    vertical/hybrid that inclines towards vertical.

    I really liked xi... but on hindsight I felt really gimped without Kraken club, o kote, leaping boots, peacock charm etc.

    Maybe some insanely good loot at lower level that have higher level counterparts? But then I guess it doesn't sit well with the ilevel requirement.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Otoha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    95
    Character
    Jo Maru
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 60
    Funny how most of the people choosing vertical say "oh it's because with horizontal I might get excluded from content"; when the only content you might get excluded from, you probably don't even do to begin with. The main reason they want vertical is because they want to feel strong with their big numbers.

    Btw, Horizontal
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Otoha View Post
    Funny how most of the people choosing vertical say "oh it's because with horizontal I might get excluded from content"; when the only content you might get excluded from, you probably don't even do to begin with. The main reason they want vertical is because they want to feel strong with their big numbers.

    Btw, Horizontal
    I want it to stay with vertical gear progression and in a static that cleared all (except savage) pre nerf. Plus I've experienced first hand with XI how the so called "Horizontel" progression was pretty much an illusion because of the preferred build for each gear swap and base sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Vertical progression makes new gear desirable* by having it be better in most cases that previous gear and also having different models. Horizontal progression has a tendency of making only a few pieces desirable until better pieces appear.
    Which is vertical progression as you are replacing gear with higher level gear. Albeit not every piece initially.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sapphic; 06-01-2015 at 09:28 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    Which is vertical progression as you are replacing gear with higher level gear. Albeit not every piece initially.
    True, FFXI style "Horizontal" Progression isn't true Horizontal Progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor View Post
    If your needing to constantly switch out gear. Then that isn't horizontal. That ... is pretty much just vertical with needing different sets of gear.

    Horizontal Progression means you can do content with any of the gear available, you just pick which one suits your play-style, trade-offs.

    If you have to carry a set of gear for each content you do then its already just vertical progression with more sets of gear needed to do the job, for example gear that is better against skeletons. Now to take on the skeleton raid you need skeleton armor. That isn't horizontal. That is still vertical.
    No, the swapping for the situation is true Horizontal Progression. Horizontal Progression is the term for increased situational capabilities from expanded equipment access without increasing the overall maximum capabilities in all situations.

    The best example of a True Horizontal Progression occurs near the end of the World of Balance in FF6.
    In the Magitek Research Facility you can find a total of 4 swords: Blizzard Blade (108 Atk, Ice element, 25% chance of casting Blizzard), Flametongue (108 Atk, Fire element, 25% chance of casting ), Thunder Blade (108 Atk, Lightning element, 25% chance of casting Thunder) and Stoneblade (117, Neutral, 25% chance of casting Break). All 4 weapons are roughly equal, but, depending on the fight, each can be better than the others.
    (2)
    Last edited by Ultimatecalibur; 06-02-2015 at 05:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Aeyis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,378
    Character
    Elinchayilani N'jala
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post

    No, the swapping for the situation is true Horizontal Progression. Horizontal Progression is the term for increased situational capabilities from expanded equipment access without increasing the overall maximum capabilities in all situations.
    No, he's correct. If you ''need'' to swap equipment to fit the situation then its not longer horizontal since you dont actually have a choice in what to equip. Your example of elemental weapons is a good example of that.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    Instrumentality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Eureka Evergarden
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeyis View Post
    No, he's correct. If you ''need'' to swap equipment to fit the situation then its not longer horizontal since you dont actually have a choice in what to equip. Your example of elemental weapons is a good example of that.
    There will always be one objectively correct set of items to wear for every single situation in a game whether or not it has vertical or horizontal progression.

    So you could never have "real" horizontal progression or whatever the argument is.
    (6)
    My life while tanking is an existential hell from which there is no escape.

  9. #9
    Player
    elemental10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    459
    Character
    Yomiko Readman
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 60
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    Twilite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,478
    Character
    Miranda Madison
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Ok question for Nektulos-Tuor: Why you don't want FFXIV to be FFXIV ?
    (2)

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