Peaple keep ignoring the message "one or more players new to duty" aperently

[synesthetic]

I haven't personally seen anyone get kicked for saying they're new at the start of an instance, but regardless, it's best if you state you're new or need advice, because there are plenty of people out there who are willing to help.

As someone who does explain stuff, I only explain stuff relevant to the new person's role. Because explaining -everyone's- roles can take a while, and most people aren't too happy if something is explained for them when they don't need it. I also get a little tired if I have to explain the same stuff all day--lotta typing--so being brief is in my best interest, too.

I mean really, the run's going to be faster and smoother if everyone knows what's going on and the party doesn't wipe. People will generally take a moment to explain if they know advice is needed. And the game's announcement that someone's new isn't enough reason to explain everything for everyone, because as Nutz said, some people are on alts or are getting help from another channel or prepared themself beforehand; and if you're a new healer, you don't need me to explain a tank's or DPS' role, but the game won't tell me who it is that's new.
Whereas if you wipe, or there's chaos, because you happen to be in a crucial role and no one knew you had any idea what to do because you didn't say you needed advice? Nobody likes that.

If you don't ask for help, you don't get help. This is pretty normal both inside and outside of the game. There is no sign on you that says you actually -need- help, and we can't read your mind.

[Taika]

I wish I could like this post a billion times:

I haven't personally seen anyone get kicked for saying they're new at the start of an instance, but regardless, it's best if you state you're new or need advice, because there are plenty of people out there who are willing to help.

As someone who does explain stuff, I only explain stuff relevant to the new person's role. Because explaining -everyone's- roles can take a while, and most people aren't too happy if something is explained for them when they don't need it. I also get a little tired if I have to explain the same stuff all day--lotta typing--so being brief is in my best interest, too.

I mean really, the run's going to be faster and smoother if everyone knows what's going on and the party doesn't wipe. People will generally take a moment to explain if they know advice is needed. And the game's announcement that someone's new isn't enough reason to explain everything for everyone, because as Nutz said, some people are on alts or are getting help from another channel or prepared themself beforehand; and if you're a new healer, you don't need me to explain a tank's or DPS' role, but the game won't tell me who it is that's new.
Whereas if you wipe, or there's chaos, because you happen to be in a crucial role and no one knew you had any idea what to do because you didn't say you needed advice? Nobody likes that.

If you don't ask for help, you don't get help. This is pretty normal both inside and outside of the game. There is no sign on you that says you actually -need- help, and we can't read your mind.

Soldiery message isn't you communicating to your party members about needing advice. It's an automatic message generated by the game telling nothing but 1 or more party members have not completed the instance on that character. The person may have completed the dungeon on another character, or studied the fights beforehand, or have someone in same party guiding them through it. Other party members are not mind readers.

[BreathlessTao]

Here's some more thing people ignore:
× ready checks
× people not even close enough to the mobs to be visible on the minimap
× AFKers (yes, sometimes that happens too)

[SirDiscoFrog]

Typical protocol, because of people having alts and many possibly being new to a dungeon but still knowing it, is announcing which one of you is new. A new dps can get by not knowing how a speed run goes, but with a new tank or healer its best to let people know, so no one is expecting too much of you.

If you don't ask for help, you don't get help. This is pretty normal both inside and outside of the game. There is no sign on you that says you actually -need- help, and we can't read your mind.

EDIT:This is ultimately what it comes down to. If no one brings it up, folk go about business as usual. Even if new to a specific dungeon you could possibly be used to speed run pulls as other dungeons like WP and AK adapt similar strategies.


However while it would be best for you to state you're new in most circumstances, the tank should have realized you could not handle the pulls he was doing and adjusted accordingly. Too many people are stuck in their own ways and forget how to adapt to certain situations, where simple edits to one's method could change everything (although honestly your tank just seemed like a douche who needed to gogogogogogofast anyway. I feel like stating you're new would have led to a similar situation lol). Ultimately it comes down to communication from all ends as many fights that are older content are done heavily different from when guides were released and some strats in general can cause major alarm to the average player to which when not prepped for can easily lead to panicking and deaths.

EDITEDIT: Also as a healer or a tank don't be afraid of telling folk what you can or cant handle. Those two roles control the pace of the run. If the tank is pulling too much or too little, don't be afraid to ask them to pull less/more. If they say no, it wont be your fault when they die from over pulling since you warned em, and maybe after the 2nd - 3rd wipe on trash mobs they will take a hint lol. Same with tanking, some just aren't comfortable with pulling 4-5 mobs for one reason or another and an additional 5mins tacked onto a run is better than possible wipes causing it to go over 10-15mins more than needed lol.

[TheEnygma]

<joins Steps of Faith, several, including me, type in chat that they're new>
<tank pulls super fast>
<I run around trying to make sure people are at cannon/tower>
<3 leave, we leave, group disbands, get guildies to help, beat it on 2nd try>

gotta love MMO's

[Zaft]

Here's the thing. Everything dungeon in this game really plays the same way. There are a few exceptions (for example, if an enemy is going to stun me as the tank, I let the healer know I'm going to be eating a lot of avoidable shit), but generally speaking, every dungeon can be done completely blind in the same way: pull everything to the door, AOE it, kill boss, repeat.

You don't need any experience in that dungeon to be able to do this, so being new isn't a valid excuse.

[Starkbeaumont]

Here's the thing. Everything dungeon in this game really plays the same way. There are a few exceptions (for example, if an enemy is going to stun me as the tank, I let the healer know I'm going to be eating a lot of avoidable shit), but generally speaking, every dungeon can be done completely blind in the same way: pull everything to the door, AOE it, kill boss, repeat.

You don't need any experience in that dungeon to be able to do this, so being new isn't a valid excuse.

This. not really defending ppl not taking a look at the rest of the group while still doing the stuff they are used to do with FC members in a more effectiv way, but healers just heal, tanks just tank and dps should do that average damage you are used to seeing via DF. of course if you don't have the overpowered gear you can only do so much before ppl die on you, you lose hate or the fight drags on too long. but when OP said ppl took huge aoe damage from the bird boss, that means someone else fucked up and fed it too many eggs I guess anyway. so he is probably not the only one to blame, but that's the fate of the new guy (and healer)

of course there are fights with special tactics even in your easy dungeon runs, but in general it boils done to "do what you queue'd for while dodging things"

[Neuflune]

Unfortunately... some people don't take newbies into account.

I was main tank and spamming T5 with friends (light party) and a dragoon was new (via DF). He got us divebombed and at one point walked to me with a twister and got me killed. I didn't say anything because the dragoon seemed to know the mechanics but was just reacting slowly, since he was new I was okay with him experiencing the fight first to get the pace. The sub tank then put the blame on me saying I had dreadwyrm gear but died to twister. It didn't turn out well, abandoned duty but we queued again, got the same sub tank and same dragoon. A friend talked to the dragoon about some of the mechanics and we cleared in one try that time.

[Canadane]

Unless someone specifically asks for tips, I'll usually give a very abridged version of the bosses mechanics before just up and pulling. Something like "Violet in, blue out", "Don't attack it unless it's inside the glow", or "One of the AOEs will buff you" or something else vaguely cryptic, allowing the player to have some kind of guidance but will still probably learn by making a mistake first. This gives the new player some help while not offering unwanted advice to those who wish to not hear it and at the same time allowing them to have a feeling they've 'figured it out' on their own, in a way.

If someone claims they are new and would appreciate any advice, I'll go into more detail. It's no help to me for them not knowing the mechanics of a fight. Yes dungeons are usually rush rush rush, I need my tomestones as much as everyone else, but everyones new at some point. Gotta learn somehow. If I'm going to be senpai for the day, so be it. I might even notice you if you listen well!

[Aldora]

What I dislike the most is that most people don't care if someone is new, is adequately geared, knows the job they play, are familiar with mechanics and so forth. They just want to finish the Duty and get out as fast as they can.

You can't keep up, then you suck. Yeah, right... That's bull. If you won't give someone a chance to learn, they’ll never improve.

Even if someone says that they're new and you're willing to explain the key parts, most of the time you don't get the chance to explain (because someone pulled already). On top that, a lot of the times people ignore mechanics completely without verifying if the group can actually handle it.

On the other hand, it makes me laugh if i can see a wipe coming from a mile away because they're too overconfident and keep on ignoring mechanics. I once started counting how many people died to Mortal Gaze (doom attack from first boss in the World of Darkness) and the hourglasses . I reached 23 during that run, without causing an actual wipe. They were just standing there, not moving an inch.