716 quality synthesis!

[darkstarpoet1]

well I think that will be the main focus on the next patch....getting the HQ mats and succeeding on the synth....

yes, i do understand that part, but you have to look at the other side of it. which is going to be harder for a high rank crafter to get? completing a high level finished item or completing a synth to get a low level part?

just go for getting a hq iron ingot for the metal crafts they mentioned.

Iron Ingot = Blacksmith (12)
Bladed Lantern Shield = Blacksmith (49), Alchemist (35)

the finished item was the hard part to complete. it was just time invested to get the hq part to complete it. now all you will be invest the time to make the hq part and then standard bash the finished product. why standard bash? why do anything other than standard bash it when the quality and touch ups no longer matter at all?

if you are missing one hq mat there's no need in taking the time to increase quality nor use skills unless the craft is looking like it may fail because you have 0 chance to hq it with only that one non quality mat. if you have all hq mats the synth just needs to get completed to get a 100% sure hq item.

we have to remember the parts may be hard to hq if you are at rank, but i doubt they will increase it to the point that even a r50 has issues getting a hq version of a r12 synth. that would assure no low level crafter would ever get that lucky hq that felt great while a low level crafter.

[Aion]

yes, i do understand that part, but you have to look at the other side of it. which is going to be harder for a high rank crafter to get? completing a high level finished item or completing a synth to get a low level part?

just go for getting a hq iron ingot for the metal crafts they mentioned.

Iron Ingot = Blacksmith (12)
Bladed Lantern Shield = Blacksmith (49), Alchemist (35)

the finished item was the hard part to complete. it was just time invested to get the hq part to complete it. now all you will be invest the time to make the hq part and then standard bash the finished product. why standard bash? why do anything other than standard bash it when the quality and touch ups no longer matter at all?

if you are missing one hq mat there's no need in taking the time to increase quality nor use skills unless the craft is looking like it may fail because you have 0 chance to hq it with only that one non quality mat. if you have all hq mats the synth just needs to get completed to get a 100% sure hq item.

we have to remember the parts may be hard to hq if you are at rank, but i doubt they will increase it to the point that even a r50 has issues getting a hq version of a r12 synth. that would assure no low level crafter would ever get that lucky hq that felt great while a low level crafter.

IF they implement system that the stats of finished HQ gear will varies/or they gear will get more bonus attribute DEPENDS on the quality, what do you think?

[User201109011315]

yes, i do understand that part, but you have to look at the other side of it. which is going to be harder for a high rank crafter to get? completing a high level finished item or completing a synth to get a low level part?

just go for getting a hq iron ingot for the metal crafts they mentioned.

Iron Ingot = Blacksmith (12)
Bladed Lantern Shield = Blacksmith (49), Alchemist (35)

the finished item was the hard part to complete. it was just time invested to get the hq part to complete it. now all you will be invest the time to make the hq part and then standard bash the finished product. why standard bash? why do anything other than standard bash it when the quality and touch ups no longer matter at all?

if you are missing one hq mat there's no need in taking the time to increase quality nor use skills unless the craft is looking like it may fail because you have 0 chance to hq it with only that one non quality mat. if you have all hq mats the synth just needs to get completed to get a 100% sure hq item.

we have to remember the parts may be hard to hq if you are at rank, but i doubt they will increase it to the point that even a r50 has issues getting a hq version of a r12 synth. that would assure no low level crafter would ever get that lucky hq that felt great while a low level crafter.

Indeed, all they did was make the one exciting part of the crafting boring.

Imagine if you went into a boss fight and all that mattered was the party setup you had or the gear you were wearing. That is basically what the new crafting system will be like. Guaranteed success even if you suck.

I thought Yoshi was trying to foster systems that rewarded skilful play. So far I've yet to see any indication that the game is going in this direction.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

I thought Yoshi was trying to foster systems that rewarded skilful play. So far I've yet to see any indication that the game is going in this direction.

Yeah for the battle system. Crafting sucks anyway.

[Estellios]

@ Darkstar: It's slightly different but I was wondering what a hardcore crafter would think about bonus XP from having higher quality upon completing a synth? Let's say any quality totaling 100 + X adds x% bonus to your XP reward?

I thought I read about something being in place to that effect but I haven't noticed anything, personally.

It would make getting high quality on tough, high level synths challenging and rewarding and let lower level synths stay relevant for a little bit longer, and maybe make leveling a craft more interesting.

[darkstarpoet1]

@ Darkstar: It's slightly different but I was wondering what a hardcore crafter would think about bonus XP from having higher quality upon completing a synth? Let's say any quality totaling 100 + X adds x% bonus to your XP reward?

I thought I read about something being in place to that effect but I haven't noticed anything, personally.

It would make getting high quality on tough, high level synths challenging and rewarding and let lower level synths stay relevant for a little bit longer, and maybe make leveling a craft more interesting.

ya know, if you were leveling a craft that would be a good idea, but if you are already capped it would go back to the standard for completion. i was trying to find more of a system that made, both, low and high level crafter work for whatever they get as far as hq items were concerned.

i do like your idea during the leveling of a craft though and believe it has its merits for sure.

[Konachibi]

@ Darkstar: It's slightly different but I was wondering what a hardcore crafter would think about bonus XP from having higher quality upon completing a synth? Let's say any quality totaling 100 + X adds x% bonus to your XP reward?

I thought I read about something being in place to that effect but I haven't noticed anything, personally.

It would make getting high quality on tough, high level synths challenging and rewarding and let lower level synths stay relevant for a little bit longer, and maybe make leveling a craft more interesting.

I like this idea. To accompany it perhaps a reward to go alongside increased XP gain could be that one or more of the materials you used to craft the item would not be consumed by the synthesis, allowing you to make another if you have more of the materials that were consumed. Or perhaps you are reimbursed the elemental shards/crystals the synthesis required.

Though it would hinder gathering classes and then market prices of materials would probably go up.

Just a thought though.

[Amineri]

yes, i do understand that part, but you have to look at the other side of it. which is going to be harder for a high rank crafter to get? completing a high level finished item or completing a synth to get a low level part?

just go for getting a hq iron ingot for the metal crafts they mentioned.

Iron Ingot = Blacksmith (12)
Bladed Lantern Shield = Blacksmith (49), Alchemist (35)

the finished item was the hard part to complete. it was just time invested to get the hq part to complete it. now all you will be invest the time to make the hq part and then standard bash the finished product. why standard bash? why do anything other than standard bash it when the quality and touch ups no longer matter at all?

if you are missing one hq mat there's no need in taking the time to increase quality nor use skills unless the craft is looking like it may fail because you have 0 chance to hq it with only that one non quality mat. if you have all hq mats the synth just needs to get completed to get a 100% sure hq item.

we have to remember the parts may be hard to hq if you are at rank, but i doubt they will increase it to the point that even a r50 has issues getting a hq version of a r12 synth. that would assure no low level crafter would ever get that lucky hq that felt great while a low level crafter.

I think that you are pointing out a valid issue with the proposed 100% chance to HQ finished items method proposed for patch 1.20, IF the current recipes are retained.

The problem has two solutions. Change the HQ process, or change the rank of the synthesis that makes the ingredient. Personally, I think that having a component (that is a rank 12 synth) for a rank 49 recipe synth is just is broken as having a component (that is a rank 40 synth) for a rank 15 recipe synth. It's just broken in the opposite direction.

The devs' current thinking along this line appears to be in this direction:

• Revisions to Materials and Intermediary Materials

While there are numerous types of materials and parts in existence, low market demand has resulted in shortages for a large number of items. In addressing this problem, we will gradually do away with intermediate materials that find little use, leaving only those that are central to synthesis. At the same time, we will narrow the gap between the requirements to equip and synthesize gear (across all steps).

Text bolded for emphasis. I think that this means that the synths to create the ingredients for finished gear will have ranks close to the finish synth itself. The cobalt sabaton recipe looked like it was built that way.

[darkstarpoet1]

I think that you are pointing out a valid issue with the proposed 100% chance to HQ finished items method proposed for patch 1.20, IF the current recipes are retained.

The problem has two solutions. Change the HQ process, or change the rank of the synthesis that makes the ingredient. Personally, I think that having a component (that is a rank 12 synth) for a rank 49 recipe synth is just is broken as having a component (that is a rank 40 synth) for a rank 15 recipe synth. It's just broken in the opposite direction.

The devs' current thinking along this line appears to be in this direction:



Text bolded for emphasis. I think that this means that the synths to create the ingredients for finished gear will have ranks close to the finish synth itself. The cobalt sabaton recipe looked like it was built that way.

i agree with you, but if we go by the given synths showed for example the cobalt sabatons. in the cobalts all the parts themselves off the sabatons was replaced with cobalt ingots correct? using logic what would the parts on the r48 iron sabatons be replaced with? iron ingots. that's the reason i used iron ingots in my example.

it would take massive changes to each and every synth and the level for each and every item that is produced to have a more skillful way of crafting. i just don't see them putting that much time into downgrading the process to take the time for each and every item in the game.

personally i don't mind the rank 12 synth in a r50 recipe because of the fact you still have to take the time to get the hq part. i don't like the r40 synth in a r12 recipe because the crafter making the item should have the ability to make the parts for the item. if it's for another craft and they don't have it leveled then it should be close to their level so they can make a trade with a crafter on that other skill and both parties feel like they got something out of the deal.

i just feel the biggest issue people have is the luck factor being completely overbearing and i don't see anything in these changes that gets rid of that problem without giving another problem in its place. for example afterwards, if we are making iron ingots they said hq versions would be harder to get, will you still get 700 quality nq ingots? if not then it removes part of the issue, but by making the hardest part the individual low level synths the overall time is just easier.

i just would love to see a system put in place(like i posted earlier) that rewards people for high quality and putting effort into the crafting process. it's funny though on that post in that i have posted it a few times in the past few months and nobody ever comments on what is good or bad with the system i mentioned so i haven't been able to update it to where more people liked it.

[Amineri]

i agree with you, but if we go by the given synths showed for example the cobalt sabatons. in the cobalts all the parts themselves off the sabatons was replaced with cobalt ingots correct? using logic what would the parts on the r48 iron sabatons be replaced with? iron ingots. that's the reason i used iron ingots in my example.

it would take massive changes to each and every synth and the level for each and every item that is produced to have a more skillful way of crafting. i just don't see them putting that much time into downgrading the process to take the time for each and every item in the game.

I agree with you that it would be a ton of work for SE to rework all of the recipes, but that is exactly what they appear to be doing anyhow. Every single recipe in the game is being replaced, essentially. There are very few finished item synths that don't require parts.

None of us can know for certain just how drastic these changes are going to be, but we have hardly seen any new recipes at all in a quite a few months. The last big batch I can remember were the intermediate grade tools, and the coatees, etc, back around the December time-frame. In hindsight, it looks like the recipe team may have been doing nothing but reworking the entire recipe system this whole time. Maybe?

Regarding the r48 iron sabatons ... I'm not sure why there would be r48 iron sabatons and r48 cobalt sabatons both in the game. I'd guess that the iron sabaton recipe is going away, or the new version will create something in the rank 20 range.

Bronze : rank 1 to 10
Iron : rank 11 to 20
Steel : rank 21 to 30
??? (Darksteel?) : rank 31 to 40
Cobalt : rank 41 to 50

This is the material types I'd expect to see for base metals in armors, in the new recipes for 1.19.

personally i don't mind the rank 12 synth in a r50 recipe because of the fact you still have to take the time to get the hq part. i don't like the r40 synth in a r12 recipe because the crafter making the item should have the ability to make the parts for the item. if it's for another craft and they don't have it leveled then it should be close to their level so they can make a trade with a crafter on that other skill and both parties feel like they got something out of the deal.

i just feel the biggest issue people have is the luck factor being completely overbearing and i don't see anything in these changes that gets rid of that problem without giving another problem in its place. for example afterwards, if we are making iron ingots they said hq versions would be harder to get, will you still get 700 quality nq ingots? if not then it removes part of the issue, but by making the hardest part the individual low level synths the overall time is just easier.

By having low rank synths for ingredients into high rank synth items, you are essentially removing any degree of skill in making the ingredient. It is primarily a "spam careful synthesis" game over and over, using NQ materials. Under the condition that HQ ingredients ~> 100% HQ final item (for final item synths ONLY), all of the luck/skill is pushed to making the ingredients. In this case, it is completely necessary to have ingredient synths be of appropriate rank.

As to getting 700+ Quality NQ ingots. Yes, I believe that will still be the case, even when 1.20 comes around. Probability of getting HQ with 700+ Quality may be increased, though, since ingredient synths will likely by higher rank (i.e. getting &00+ Quality on a rank 45 synth ... very hard!). Yoshi-P said this:

Also, in the new specs, HQ items will only be created if every ingredient used is HQ. Obtaining HQ versions of the ingredients will require a mix of luck and skill. (We want to make sure that you will not experience a sense of futility when your synthesized item turns into NQ at the last moment.)

Essentially that all of the luck and skill are being front-loaded into the ingredients. He seems to use the word ingredient in a quite distinct manner from item, as well. I looked up the kanji that Bayohne translated as "ingredient", and it has more the flavor of "intermediate material". So, I'm thinking that item = finished, usable item. Ingredient = synthed, intermediate material.

i just would love to see a system put in place(like i posted earlier) that rewards people for high quality and putting effort into the crafting process. it's funny though on that post in that i have posted it a few times in the past few months and nobody ever comments on what is good or bad with the system i mentioned so i haven't been able to update it to where more people liked it.

The original quality to HQ system was more like this (back during closed beta). Higher quality had a much higher impact on probability of HQ (haha, HQ leads to HQ, go figure! xD ). However, higher quality also made the synthesis much much harder to complete. It didn't matter whether the quality came from starting materials or was gained during the synthesis. Under that system, achieving 716 quality would have been essentially impossible. This made HQ materials valued less, however, so the system was changed to make the starting quality from materials not count toward difficulty. This lead to "quality inflation", and the quality-to-HQ correlations ended up getting weakened.

This is, I think, the part of the system that needs to be fixed.