ILevel or Skill level?

[Kotemon]

I and many others had to go through that in XI, in the end it wasn't to fun knowing skill gains would be really slow (or expensive if you're only buying tomes). Given what I remember reading about 1.0 It sounded like the job/class thing they wanted would have been better on a tree based on skill level in conjunction with class level. Again, not to fun since it would have been to much like XI before several long overdue adjustments.

Otherwise I think the PVP/ Frontline ability skill sets are the only thing in game even close to how I'm interpreting the question.

Singleplayer games dont typically require (much, or any) grinding. .

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

[GenJoe]

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

None of those old titles required more than ~200 hours of gameplay to grind it out..
I've averaged about 120 hours on the typical FF/DQ titles and felt it was enough..
Disgaea, La Pucelle, Phantom Brave, these NIS titles, now these are a completely different beast.. I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2..

Now, I ask you.. How many hours do you think I have logged on WoW? FF14? Guild Wars 2? Wildstar? Take a guess, they're at least a digit higher In case of WoW, could even be 2 digits more..

[Kotemon]

I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2....

Now Disgaea is a series I've heard lots about, but unfortunately I've never been able to get my hands on any of them when I still had a PS2 to experience the gameplay. Or the Secret/Legend of Mana sets. The later might be more for unlocking via map placement and the forge. I'd also suggest Ever Quest back in its hay-day but I knew nothing about online at the time let alone cared much for it after hearing those rumors. Mostly like it was the RPG version of crack for DnD folks. Then again EQ wasn't single player like Elder Scrolls 3.

[Aeyis]

I and many others had to go through that in XI, in the end it wasn't to fun knowing skill gains would be really slow (or expensive if you're only buying tomes). Given what I remember reading about 1.0 It sounded like the job/class thing they wanted would have been better on a tree based on skill level in conjunction with class level. Again, not to fun since it would have been to much like XI before several long overdue adjustments.

Otherwise I think the PVP/ Frontline ability skill sets are the only thing in game even close to how I'm interpreting the question.



I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

Thats quite a ways off-topic you went. And yes, I can only remember a single ff moment where grinding was needed, and that was to beat the first Seymoure in FFX, simple because of the way the sphere grid worked+ characters typically being unavailable so you could focus their leveling.

I dont know what you experienced in FFXI, but just because you have one experience doesnt mean youve seen them all. I gave you one example where the stats diversity made it possible to have (a fair amount of good) builds. One build being best didnt make it mandatory there.

Since you gave a FF example, perhaps you should give an example where in the history you FF you had to take an exat group of party members (when you had more party members available), as that would be a better comparison. Items collection for 100% completion dont count when talking about this kind of (mandatory) grind.
It's level/powergrind thats on topic.


I take it you never played many(many) of the games (singleplayer or mmo) where having a higher variety of stats made the game more interesting?