ILevel or Skill level?

[Aeyis]

Lets be honest here, there are no "bonus" stats when it comes to the player base expectations n mmos. You can complicate it as much as you want but it's going to come down to, people who want best only, and people who dont care and just look for acceptable. Basically skilling up you are just asking to add the idea behind the current relic system to smaller increments to everything, with a few extra things to worry about thrown in. Given the game is intended to be casual geared in its core concept I vote no.

Really now. I've known plenty of people that were serious at the game (as in, they invested a lot of time in it) but made their own choices on what build to get, instead of going for ''the best''.


Sure, there's many who only go for ''the best'', but please dont generalize.


For example in RO I played a hybrid hunter, which was not ''the best'' (best was full dex/agi with about 20?-30 points in vit), but it worked and was interesting.
It was possible to do that precisely because of the stats diversity.

All your idea does is screw people who don't have huge amounts of time to play.
Right now, a skilled player with minimal time can still get the best gear and be on a level play field with those who spend 10+ hours per day on the game.

MMOs are about time investment first, before level of skill.
If you don't have huge amounts of time to play, I can guarantee there are plenty of games you can play that are worth more /time spend playing. Which makes sense, similar amount of development time/funding for those games, but a smaller game.

[Sylve]

MMOs are about time investment first, before level of skill.
If you don't have huge amounts of time to play, I can guarantee there are plenty of games you can play that are worth more /time spend playing. Which makes sense, similar amount of development time/funding for those games, but a smaller game.

15 years ago maybe.
I enjoy MMOs.
I do not have 10 hours every day to devote to gaining tiny stat increments so that i can play the challenging content.

Skill comes before time invested.
If time was all that was required to be good at the game, everyone would be clearing FCoB.

If XIV told me i needed to spend a week getting my Job to cap then spend 3 months grinding my stats up so i could do anything with that Job, I'd quit.

[Aeyis]

15 years ago maybe.
I enjoy MMOs.
I do not have 10 hours every day to devote to gaining tiny stat increments so that i can play the challenging content.

Skill comes before time invested.
If time was all that was required to be good at the game, everyone would be clearing FCoB.

If XIV told me i needed to spend a week getting my Job to cap then spend 3 months grinding my stats up so i could do anything with that Job, I'd quit.

15 years ago and today.

If you want the best quality for your time spend, then mmos are not a good choice.
If for you skill comes before time invested, then it seems to me mmos arent really your thing.

Ignoring the mmo tag as meaning ''requires time investment, but gives you something you can do over a longer time because of it'' is certainly something we didnt have 15 years ago however.
Its very prevailent these days however, it seems.


If I have an hour to spend on a game, and I want to enjoy that hour from start to finish, then I play a singleplayer game where I can just hop in, without having to grind first, or wait for queues.

If on the other hand I'm looking for something I can play for a much longer time over the course of a month or a year, then a mmo is a much better choice.


Singleplayer games dont typically require (much, or any) grinding. Whereas grinding or things such as queues are a part of the mmo genre. You need to be able to have enough to do to potentially play it for months, after all.

It is that simple.

[Sylve]

snip

All your idea does is screw people who don't have huge amounts of time to play.
Right now, a skilled player with minimal time can still get the best gear and be on a level play field with those who spend 10+ hours per day on the game.

With your idea, people with limited time would *never* be able to catch up to those with more time to play. Especially if you're raising stats in your grind.

If anything, everything needs Materia Slots and the Materia system should be changed to apply or modify effects on skills.
For example, a Monk might want to get a Materia called 'Instant Demolish', which causes the Monk skill Demolish to apply its whole DoT effect instantly, but has a 28 second cooldown.
While another Materia could change Twin Snakes to grant a longer duration buff with lower bonus damage, allowing you to dump more True Strikes.
Damage done over time is unchanged, but its a different more personalized play style.

You would only have limited Materia Slots, perhaps only on Head/Chest/Legs/Hands/Feet/Weapon, so you wouldn't be able to just use every Materia for every skill.
Maybe even have it so only 1 Materia could affect any given skill at a time.

[Amatsuhira]

I can see the argument for people with more time being able to get farther along than someone without. However in a mere 45 seconds of giving it thought I think we could cap the daily limit and give exp or .x increase to people who stay logged out, similar to rest exp. This way people with less time on their hand would be able to skill up a stat or ability or materia at the same rate as the person with more time.
Nothing is forbidden, every idea is permitted here.
For added effect and to add to what Warlyx said these bonus points for abilities could go into a set of trees for Talents to diversify yo self.
To add to what Syvle said. I'm thinking Sphere Grid with Materia slots in it perhaps hidden, like Mutegen's in Witcher 2.
They would coincide with gear slots or perhaps the gear slots unlock the hidden materia slot in the grid which can only be seen with and must coincide somehow with the leveling materia. Or it could only become available when you have that maxed materia slotted to your armor. I'm just riffing here.

[Gardes]

At first I thought you meant actual skill level, not paper skill level. If 'ilvl' only increases based on a player's actual combat achievements (beat this gain x slvl, beat that gain x slvl, etc) I'd imagine alot of players wouldn't actually be anywhere near 'slvl' 100 out of 130.

The whining would be an amazing sight to behold.

[TrailArnizay]

At first I thought you meant actual skill level, not paper skill level. If 'ilvl' only increases based on a player's actual combat achievements (beat this gain x slvl, beat that gain x slvl, etc) I'd imagine alot of players wouldn't actually be anywhere near 'slvl' 100 out of 130.

The whining would be an amazing sight to behold.

Datacrons in SWTOR come to mind. The bonuses were enough that they were mandatory instead of fun.

[Kotemon]

I and many others had to go through that in XI, in the end it wasn't to fun knowing skill gains would be really slow (or expensive if you're only buying tomes). Given what I remember reading about 1.0 It sounded like the job/class thing they wanted would have been better on a tree based on skill level in conjunction with class level. Again, not to fun since it would have been to much like XI before several long overdue adjustments.

Otherwise I think the PVP/ Frontline ability skill sets are the only thing in game even close to how I'm interpreting the question.

Singleplayer games dont typically require (much, or any) grinding. .

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

[GenJoe]

I take it you've never played the old Dragon Warrior titles before they were re-released as Dragon Quest. Or got those other summons, rat tails for that armor, and those dragon drops on the moon in FFII (us). Let alone getting your party level high enough to make the last dungeon journey not require as much running away and potions, tents etc.. in Final Fantasy for the NES. (Although the last boss can be killed in the first turn)

None of those old titles required more than ~200 hours of gameplay to grind it out..
I've averaged about 120 hours on the typical FF/DQ titles and felt it was enough..
Disgaea, La Pucelle, Phantom Brave, these NIS titles, now these are a completely different beast.. I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2..

Now, I ask you.. How many hours do you think I have logged on WoW? FF14? Guild Wars 2? Wildstar? Take a guess, they're at least a digit higher In case of WoW, could even be 2 digits more..

[Kotemon]

I think the most I've put in was about 300 hours into Disgaea 2....

Now Disgaea is a series I've heard lots about, but unfortunately I've never been able to get my hands on any of them when I still had a PS2 to experience the gameplay. Or the Secret/Legend of Mana sets. The later might be more for unlocking via map placement and the forge. I'd also suggest Ever Quest back in its hay-day but I knew nothing about online at the time let alone cared much for it after hearing those rumors. Mostly like it was the RPG version of crack for DnD folks. Then again EQ wasn't single player like Elder Scrolls 3.