Surecast Enhancements, Please!

[Atlaworks]

I think we do not need that kind of effect. We have plenty of instant cast and swiiftcast for moving. I think it is good as it is now. THere is plenty of situations where you can use it. Like in leviathan once you wanna dot tail, second cast get interrupted without surecast or once spumes explode your cast may get interrupted by damage without surecast. In shiva extreme if you stand still and take ice ring damage, you can keep casting with surecast but without it your cast can get interrupted by damage.

So, in both of those situations, why wouldn't you just use swiftcast instead?

Also, what's this "we" you're talking about? Because the only instant cast spell black mages have is Scathe, and I think the only one white mages have is Fluid Aura, if that counts? It's a cooldown. Are you talking about Arcanists? Because they have Bio, Ruin II, and Miasma II as instant casts. I assume so, since your main class is shown as arcanist. I could also include Fester, though that has a 10 second cooldown itself and is summoner only.

That being said, "We" are not all arcanists.

[Lemuria]

Also, what's this "we" you're talking about? Because the only instant cast spell black mages have is Scathe, and I think the only one white mages have is Fluid Aura, if that counts? It's a cooldown. Are you talking about Arcanists? Because they have Bio, Ruin II, and Miasma II as instant casts. I assume so, since your main class is shown as arcanist.

Well, to be fair WHM also has Regen as an instant spell, but otherwise your argument is on point. Regen's a nice spell, but it's really only useful over long periods of time rather than an instant panacea.

To the defenders I ask only one question, and be honest if only to yourselves. How often do you actually use Surecast? I can tell you in the numerous years I've played FFXIV I've used it less than 10 times. It's never been necessary, ever. Never been useful, ever. In PvP it's still as useless as ever due to latency issues so the game considers you as still moving while casting. That is, unless you stay put for a whole 10 seconds. A suicidal situation if ever there was.

[Sunako]

So, in both of those situations, why wouldn't you just use swiftcast instead?

Also, what's this "we" you're talking about? Because the only instant cast spell black mages have is Scathe, and I think the only one white mages have is Fluid Aura, if that counts? It's a cooldown. Are you talking about Arcanists? Because they have Bio, Ruin II, and Miasma II as instant casts. I assume so, since your main class is shown as arcanist. I could also include Fester, though that has a 10 second cooldown itself and is summoner only.

That being said, "We" are not all arcanists.

Black mages can move with aetherial manipulation and you can move during you cast firestarter or thunder procs etc. Some mechanics you can bypass by using different shields. In the expansion you will get buff that will gain proc with 100% chance so black mages mobility will be even better. Whm can cast aero, benediction, fluid aura and regen while moving. In the expansion whm will get 50% max hp instant heal if i did not miss something. And btw i play all 4 caster jobs myself(whm/sch/smn/blm).

And the reason why i do not wanna use swiftcast on those situations? Because you can save cast time from flare or shadow flare or save it once you need actually move?

[Atlaworks]

Black mages can move with aetherial manipulation and you can move during you cast firestarter or thunder procs etc. Some mechanics you can bypass by using different shields. In the expansion you will get buff that will gain proc with 100% chance so black mages mobility will be even better. Whm can cast aero, benediction, fluid aura and regen while moving. In the expansion whm will get 50% max hp instant heal if i did not miss something. And btw i play all 4 caster jobs myself(whm/sch/smn/blm).

And the reason why i do not wanna use swiftcast on those situations? Because you can save cast time from flare or shadow flare or save it once you need actually move?

Procs are unreliable at best. Aetherial Manipulation is not castable during a skill and if it was it'd break the skill, as the movement isn't instant. Benediction, Regen, and Tetragrammophone aren't attack actions, which is what we were going over. Manaward and Manawall don't let you cast instantly. Sharpcast gives you, in your own loose terms, "one free swiftcast to choose from between Fire3 or Thunder3".

Also, calling black mage mobility better for a chance of one free proc on a cooldown while ignoring ley lines entirely is kind of hilarious.

[Kaethra]

The only time I've ever used Surecast is doing speed runs of like Wandering Palace or Darkhold. That cannot be the intended use for the spell. No it seems like it was a great idea on paper, especially if you've ever solo'd in a game as a caster in a MMO since 2004.

But interruptions just don't happen often enough or happen with a predictable frequency to warrant this spell a spot on the hotbar.

Its needs a change.

I like the idea of it allowing casts while moving. But only one spell. Or if it does more than a spell its duration should be cut drastically. Like to 5 seconds. Maybe allow the Thaum trait to increase this to its current 10s duration.

But if we allow it a 5s duration. I'd like to see mana cost go up by 20% and movement speed cut by 35% like someone suggested. What that would do is make it so on quick reactions.. you're probably not going to do it. But can still get an extra cast or two during planned movement.

With Black Mages and the 10s duration from it may seem OP. But with an extra 20% mana cost.. those Astral Fire stacks will make that VERY expensive. They will lose a Fire 1 in their rotation. But at least they can get one or two off while moving. But due to the increased cost they won't keep that buff up all the time.

[AdamFyi]

Never once used it over swiftcast on WHM, nor while leveling up Arcanist some. I even mentioned earlier that it's uselessness is made even worse by both skills being cross-classable by all DoMs.

Wait, so am I one of the few WHMs in this game who actually uses Surecast? It's pretty damn useful in certain situations. I don't get why nobody likes using it. That aside, I'm sure that Surecast was for the most part intended to be meant for solo content where you'll be taking the brunt of the enemy attacks. o:

[Mendalas]

People in this thread haven't been pony farming much eh? Many of the Primals strong LB attack interrupts casting. As a white mage, to be able to surecast and charge up a medica 2 during leviathans LB feels pretty damn good when it goes off immediately after the damage hits the party with no interruption.

Another example would be in ST on the last boss when he does Ancient Quaga (spelling?). If you time it right as a mage, you can continue your rotation with a surecast (spell) when the lightning cloud goes off so that you are not interrupted. On black mage, when he re-appears from sending meteors down at us, I use a thunder 2, stack with the group for the lightning cloud, then surecast fire 3 and it guarantees it will go off. Definitely allows for more damage in the long run.

So the point stands that it is still very situational, but it does feel good to negate an interruption from a huge attack that would otherwise interrupt you.

I agree with many posters here that I would also like to see it slightly buffed. As for a suggestion for the buff, I'm not exactly sure. For me it does seem more of a pvp ability.

[kyuven]

So the point stands that it is still very situational, but it does feel good to negate an interruption from a huge attack that would otherwise interrupt you.

Except all those interrupts can be prevented by just timing it so you're not casting when the attacks go off. It's not like they're rapidly going out in a short period of time, no single big huge interrupting ability goes out more than once a minute or so.
Most of those abilities have a 10 second wind-up time, while your own have around 2 seconds or so.
Add to that surecast only affects one spell, which means you need to tack on another second or so to your cast times just to use it then start casting. Swiftcast works a lot better for this.
And as mentioned if you're a healer, you should be setting your buffs and damage mitigation abilities BEFORE the big attack goes out. Which again, you have about 10 seconds to prepare for.
Surecast, when looked at in a vaccuum, isn't a bad ability on paper, it's just useless when looked at side-by-side with Swiftcast.

[Mendalas]

Except all those interrupts can be prevented by just timing it so you're not casting when the attacks go off. It's not like they're rapidly going out in a short period of time, no single big huge interrupting ability goes out more than once a minute or so.
Most of those abilities have a 10 second wind-up time, while your own have around 2 seconds or so.
Add to that surecast only affects one spell, which means you need to tack on another second or so to your cast times just to use it then start casting. Swiftcast works a lot better for this.
And as mentioned if you're a healer, you should be setting your buffs and damage mitigation abilities BEFORE the big attack goes out. Which again, you have about 10 seconds to prepare for.
Surecast, when looked at in a vaccuum, isn't a bad ability on paper, it's just useless when looked at side-by-side with Swiftcast.

I try to save swiftcast as a whm if I can since raise is such a long cast. If SC is down when somebody dies, well that just sucks.
Also, besides single target casting stoneskin on everyone (waste of time and mp mid battle) there is nothing else I can do to get ready for a big attack that interrupts casting. But I can time it with surecast to heal just after the damage is received. It may not be totally necessary, but it sure is rewarding when you time it right. This is not to say that I don't partially agree with you about surecast in general, but it is helpful on white mage in most fights for healing up as fast as possible when an interrupt is inevitable.

[kyuven]

snip

See, in my mind this seems...off.
For 4 man parties...let's not kid ourselves it's completely and utterly useless if everyone's doing their jobs right.
But in 8 man parties, you have a scholar most of the time. Before those big AOEs, I always see Stoneskin thrown out if possible and maybe a medica 2. Most WHMs i see take that gap of time to ensure they have enough MP for the next phase that's coming (since these attacks almost always coincide with phase changes)
But the important aspect is relying on the scholar for the set-up, while the WHM handles the "denouement" of the attack. And if speed is an issue as WHM you also have presence of mind to make use of.
And the interesting thing is there are just as many situations where these attacks are followed up with an add spawning (t13 gigaflares/rage of bahamut, weird timing in Leviathan) so having your heal go off in time with the attack could be a BAD thing, something i've seen happen in t13 more than I'd like.