The Other Side of The (Raid) Force

[VarinaVashai]

You know he is paying for this game like u rigth? is not charity, is not F2P, and he should be able to enjoy the full experience he is paying (specially story of the game), the same way u should be able to do it. SE should find a way to recognize and satisfy both the 99% stuck and u, the 1% who can deal with Coil and feel "pro"

Again the money argument its horrible bad short sighted, on the other side of the coin there are people paying to PLAY the GAME. And they want to experience the reward of achiving a goal, trough hardship, commitment and hard work. So that they can enjoy the reward at the end of their journey. If you want to use those words to describe the "unclimbable mountain", when its really just playing the game and learning. Everyone can try all content if you complete it or not, is entierly up to you.

Just buy a game to play it, not to have everything handed to you. That includes story aswell as items, but im sure there are those that would be in favor of getting items aswell as levels just because they pay for the subscription.

You pay a subscription, you should expect that you're able to play the game. And what you experience within the game is not controlled by the money you pay but the effort you put into it.

[Kallera]

Varina, not everyone approaches something they've beaten their heads against for months as "improving myself". Not everyone is in this to be some professional player, and it is very possible for people to become a good player, but a lousy person through it.

For better or worse, the two sides can't be reconciled over this issue, and if content in one mode of Alex fails to satisfy a particular group, they can let SE know. But no one likes being shut out entirely and then carelessly tossed a spoiler video by SE.

[Malevicton]

You know he is paying for this game like u rigth? is not charity, is not F2P, and he should be able to enjoy the full experience he is paying (specially story of the game), the same way u should be able to do it.

He can? It's not like they specifically made the fights easier for some people :P But he also has to deal with the same challenges that everyone else has to deal with. If he didn't, then he would actually be getting a different experience from all the other people who are also paying as much as him.

The "I pay for my sub so the game should work around my style"-esque arguments just don't fly. If everyone's allowed to use it then the game would have to break itself with all the contradictions between people's play styles, and if it only applies to certain people then the comment subverts its own message of equality.

eg: I also pay a sub, and blm is my favorite class. I should be able to cross class cover to use with manawall for style points. After all, my preference is just as valid, my sub costs the exact same. So why is this preference not okay? Because it would unbalance the game for other players.

Paying for the game pays for access to playing the game; it does not entitle you to automatic completion of the game. This is how all games work. The experience you seem to be looking for is called television.

E: On the one hand I get that this is a casual game and all. But coil is the only difficult content in the game. Just let us raiders have this one thing and you can have literally the rest of the game handed to you :/

[VarinaVashai]

Varina, not everyone approaches something they've beaten their heads against for months as "improving myself". Not everyone is in this to be some professional player, and it is very possible for people to become a good player, but a lousy person through it.

I hope that you don't become a lousy person trough it, and improving oneself or not. It is challenging your resolve and patience, qualities that resides within you. But there are times one have to acknowledge that something is out off reach.
Im just saying that you should never stop reaching for it, but doing so with your own efforts. As i personaly think that makes reaching your goal far more rewarding then any ilvl in any shape or form. And too sit down and watch the story once the goal is reached, is very satisfying.

Taking away that element would remove all sence of adventure that still remains in the game, thats how i see it anyway.
I hope you never stop reaching for what still remains out off sight aswell.

[Keylus]

I have no idea on drop limits at first I will assume it's like WoD was and get lifted in time other than that I know Alexander Normal will come out 2 weeks from launch of HW then 2 weeks later Savage mode will be introduced

Thanks for the info
At least at the beginning multiple loots per week will not be problem
Well, it is not like it would be a problem for me since I am playing casual

[Ashkendor]

See thats just a snide remark, NO ONE has asked for gear they only want to see the story so get off your high horse and stop hiding behind the welfare gear argument its invalid.

Again another unwanted nor needed comment NO ONE asked for gear, seriously get over yourselves AND I will say it AGAIN have you tried getting a group for Lower Coils lately, It's fairly impossible due to a lot of inactivity or people just not wanting to go unless you pay a FC millions of Gil.

Your comment about content "for raiders to bludgeon themselves in" set the snide tone there.

For what it's worth, I see learning and clear parties for T9 on my server all the time. My raid static throws a learning party up in PF on Saturday nights to help people learn whatever content their little hearts desire outside of Savage SCoB. There are ways to get through it, if one simply looks. If you can't find a learning party, simply make your own.

To be honest with most hardcore progression raiders it's all about trying to be the first to beat content and put it on farm you'll find alot of those raiders will infact skip story because it disrupts the levelling so they can get to the next level of raiding content asap, it's becoming all too common and the norm in modern mmo's & I have played mmo's with my husband for over 15 years.

There are those raiders that don't care about the story, but you might be surprised at how many actually do. I've actually sat and had discussions about the Coil lore with other people that enjoy raiding and enjoy the story.

[Aureyo]

I just don't get it, you pay to have access to the game. That is why you are subbed. Thus, you have access to the story in coil with as much chance as everyone else. You aren't being oppressed or denied access to that story in anyway other than not beating the turns. If you are that sore about it then watch youtube, if you want the "in game" experience then beat the turns. Practice your class and form a group with friends and work on the turns like everyone else.

Remember when playing a game and getting better at it and finally beating something you worked hard for gave you a sense of accomplishment? I do.

[Kallera]

snip

While I do have personal experience on this, do consider, there are a lot more people not willing to even attempt the content because it has a reputation of being hard, stressful, and full of asses. SE needs to justify making this sort of stuff, and they do so on metrics. As in the amount that participate, how often they participate, the amount that clear, etc.

Too few people were able to do fcoil, much less beat it. They saw this, and saw a reason to change it, otherwise they are spending large amounts of time and resources for a few. And yes there's the possibility that having too many "wheat and chaff" moment can cause people to not deal with it or leave rather than burn the midnight oil one more time wiping, which can affect how people treat each other once they clear it and are faced with other people that didn't.(read:SoF)

[VarinaVashai]

While I do have personal experience on this, do consider, there are a lot more people not willing to even attempt the content because it has a reputation of being hard, stressful, and full of asses. SE needs to justify making this sort of stuff, and they do so on metrics. As in the amount that participate, how often they participate, the amount that clear, etc.

Too few people were able to do fcoil, much less beat it. They saw this, and saw a reason to change it, otherwise they are spending large amounts of time and resources for a few. And yes there's the possibility that having too many "wheat and chaff" moment can cause people to not deal with it or leave rather than burn the midnight oil one more time wiping, which can affect how people treat each other once they clear it and are faced with other people that didn't.(read:SoF)

I think we all have some experience on this good and bad. And i dont know what your experiences are on this matter, or what kind of people you're surrounded by on your adventures. I try to surround myself with friends that share a similar mindset, work togheter overcome the challenge. Focus on what is important the achivment with your friends, with no need to point fingers at mistakes or rage when faced with defeat. And having the will to try again with encouragment rather then profanity.
Now i understand finding individuals that share a similar mindset, is exstremly difficult. Seeing as there are a large amount of item hungry, toxic, raging "elitest" wannabes and horrible people in general.

But despite all that, i still dont see the need to remove the need to keep reaching. Having content be out of reach, gives you something to work towards regardless of how long it takes. And you will always want to complete it, sometime togheter with real friends you might.

I wouldnt want to see that oppertunity taken away from me atleast. And you and others might disagree.

[Ashkendor]

While in an mmo locking "Story" behind "Raiding Content" is a bad move which is why it's being "Corrected in Heavensward" SE realise doing what they did with Coil was a mistake and they are adjusting the new content so "Everyone" can experience their story. The only issue that stands at the moment is a lot of people new to the game and with real life commitments *I apologise suffering with illness I really do* dont get to see Coil's story unless they PAY a FC a rediculous amount of Gil *60m on my server Ragnarok* for a group willing to go.

They aren't "correcting" it per se, though. It's more accurate to say that they are easing it. People will still need to get together and beat it. It'll be easier, but it'll still require effort. I'm sure that there will still be those people that aren't willing to and will simply sit on the sidelines complaining rather than putting in the effort. As far as people new to the game and people with real life commitments, I don't see why people keep bringing that up. No matter what someone's circumstances are, they'll need to put a certain amount of effort into the game to progress. Plenty of raiders I know have kids and jobs and lives outside of the game. Being a raider doesn't mean you play the game 24/7. Newbies don't have it any harder than we did when first diving into the content, they simply have a different set of problems to deal with.

I'm sorry to hear about your illness, in any case. I hope you're doing better and wish that I could help you with T9, but unfortunately you're on a different server than I am. 60m does seem ridiculous for T9, though I guess it makes sense that prices would vary from server to server; I think my raid static charges 2.1m for T9 when we merc.

I just don't get it, you pay to have access to the game. That is why you are subbed. Thus, you have access to the story in coil with as much chance as everyone else. You aren't being oppressed or denied access to that story in anyway other than not beating the turns. If you are that sore about it then watch youtube, if you want the "in game" experience then beat the turns. Practice your class and form a group with friends and work on the turns like everyone else.

Remember when playing a game and getting better at it and finally beating something you worked hard for gave you a sense of accomplishment? I do.

Exactly. I don't get why some people seem to think that being subbed means they should simply be handed everything on a silver platter. It's difficult content for a reason, and in a story-driven game like FFXIV expecting their high-end content to have no story is like expecting the sun not to rise tomorrow. It's just not gonna happen. In any case, raiders didn't start the game with all the necessary skills and contacts along with foreknowledge of the mechanics to the raids. We had to learn how to play the game. We had to network and find people that we mesh with that are also skilled enough for the content, and we had to learn to work together with them. We had to dive into the content and die. A lot. We had to learn that a wipe isn't a failure as long as you learn something from it. Some raiders are more skilled than others, too. Some write guides. Others follow guides. Either way, you have to go through a lot of the same things to progress.

Honestly, the only difference between a raider and a non-raider is actually putting in the effort to clear.