The Other Side of The (Raid) Force

[Malevicton]

You know he is paying for this game like u rigth? is not charity, is not F2P, and he should be able to enjoy the full experience he is paying (specially story of the game), the same way u should be able to do it.

He can? It's not like they specifically made the fights easier for some people :P But he also has to deal with the same challenges that everyone else has to deal with. If he didn't, then he would actually be getting a different experience from all the other people who are also paying as much as him.

The "I pay for my sub so the game should work around my style"-esque arguments just don't fly. If everyone's allowed to use it then the game would have to break itself with all the contradictions between people's play styles, and if it only applies to certain people then the comment subverts its own message of equality.

eg: I also pay a sub, and blm is my favorite class. I should be able to cross class cover to use with manawall for style points. After all, my preference is just as valid, my sub costs the exact same. So why is this preference not okay? Because it would unbalance the game for other players.

Paying for the game pays for access to playing the game; it does not entitle you to automatic completion of the game. This is how all games work. The experience you seem to be looking for is called television.

E: On the one hand I get that this is a casual game and all. But coil is the only difficult content in the game. Just let us raiders have this one thing and you can have literally the rest of the game handed to you :/

[Twilite]

Yes, it is. There is already a lot of stuff to help not-so-good players beat content. You can outgear it, you get Echo, you can get help from better players. Or... and this will sound completely crazy to a lot of the playerbase: Get better yourself.

Thank you for not selling yourself out by saying "gitgud"

[Kitfox]

What do you mean by "experiencing the story"? It's very well possible to look at youtube, or whatever to see the cutscenes and learn what happens in the story. But maybe you're not actually interested in the story, but actually want to complete the content, and experience the rewards after overcoming obstacles? What is it that you really want?

Is it right one cannot experience the story behind raids as the Coil? Yes, I think it is right. Because the story in this case is a reward for winning at a game. That's how games are, you get rewards for winning at games. If you don't win the game, you don't get the rewards. If one sincerely just wants to know what happens in a storyline, it's very well possible to find out about it outside the game, without winning, or doing the content. In RPG style games, getting to know the story is a big part of the rewards and a driving force for the player, in single player games as in MMOs. So I think that it is ok to have it as a reward and not as a handout.

If you want to experience content in the way that you win at things to get rewarded the story, then you'll be able to do it if you become skilled enough, the content becomes easy enough, or you are helped through the content by other players.

This is how games are. We're playing a GAME, not reading a novel or watching a movie. Story being a part of the rewards is for the players of the game. I'm sure many will document the story somewhere outside the game so that people other than players can see and experience it.

[Malevicton]

Why should this be different from other games? You can't see the ending of Mass Effect without beating the game, you can't see the final ffvii scene if you don't beat sephiroth...

The coil fights themselves are part of the story. The cutscenes are what happen after the fight. Why should you see the postfight cutscene of a fight you didn't participate in?

I feel for you if you can't beat it and all, but I don't see why people think this is a unique problem to MMOs or to ffxiv. You have to do content to get the story in pretty much every video game ever.

[Kathryn]

*Snip*

Fair argument but where story is concerned everyone should be able to see it ESPECIALLY when they pay the same sub fee as everyone else and the difference you spoke about between this game and Mass Effect etc is those games are designed to be completed by 1 player and diffeculty in single player games is very scaled to be beatable, an mmo requires a party, Have you tried getting a party for things like T9 at the moment? It's impossible I've been trying for 2 weeks since i returned to the game from radiation therapy and now I will have to wait until after Heavensward and hope I can convince people to help me breeze through it with overpowered gear just so i can see those aspects of the story I am missing.

[VarinaVashai]

Fair argument but where story is concerned everyone should be able to see it ESPECIALLY when they pay the same sub fee as everyone else.

I dont see why money always gets involved in this discussion, its a poor argument for why you should be able to see all content just like that. You pay the subscription to play the game, you put your efforts and hard work into experiencing the content. Some of the content is easier to complete while the rest is more challenging.

To make all content easily accesable the desire to see said content goes down. And your own desires, diminishes the experience to the individuals that enjoys challenging content. Just accept that there are content for all sides, appreciate what you can. And keep trying for what you have still to achive.

But dont bring money as a reason as to why you feel entitled to do all content at a whim.

[Kathryn]

*Snip*

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

[VarinaVashai]

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

We all have the same right to see the content, and its gated behind challenge. Story involved or not, if you choose that the content is out of your reach it still doesnt prevent you from trying to unlock the story. I myself have not completed coil, i do want to see it. But paying a subscription is not reason enough as to why i should be allowed to, i need to get there with a party of likeminded individuals that want to push beyond the challenge and unlock the reward.

And in regards to creating challenging content with only loot as the reward is shallow worthless content. In my opinion atleast.

[Malevicton]

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

We all do have the same right to story content anyways. We have to fight the same encounters for the same rewards. If people got the rewards without the encounter then we wouldn't have the same right to story content. At that point you would actually have a distinct advantage over the people who are playing the game.

You pay the same sub fee as me, yeah. And I paid the same amount for mass effect as everyone else. I still had to actually, yknow, play the game to get to the ending. If you're looking for an interactive story experience you could look into that genre (stuff like the walking dead games). There's an appeal to that. But that's not what this game is supposed to be. The gameplay and story are intended to be tied together.

I still don't see how this seperates ffxiv from the rest of the gaming industry. Other than the games that are specifically marketed as being more storytelling-esque, games have always worked this way and for a lot of people that's the appeal. If you wanna just watch a cool story with no pressure on you to progress it, then watch tv or a movie, or play games in that genre. Complaining about story being behind gameplay in an rpg is like complaining that there's no first-person shooter mode in an rts game. It's kind of on you at that point for playing the wrong game.

[Theonekitten]

I was not bringing it into the argument as some sort of self entitlement I was just making him aware we all should have the same right to see story content it should not be locked out and there are many other ways for making challenging content for all those other players out there who want to do it for their loot.

You do have the same right as others and you will see the content when you complete the challenges presented to you. That is what FF is about. You need to work at it until you succeed. Such is the way of rpgs. Maybe this isn't the game for you.