The Other Side of The (Raid) Force

[Cynthis]

That's the thing a lot of people just aren't understanding though. There's a large number of players that don't get a sense of accomplishment from raiding. If all they want is story then it's not "yay, I did it!" when you finish the raid. It's "THANK GOD it's finally over."

This sums up my view and explains why I HATE having to spend long periods of time learning fight mechanics. My suggestion to this is easy and fits with my sense of immersion, just don't ever levelsync the raids. That way as my character gets increasingly powerful I can someday go into t13 without having to do it absolutely perfectly and relying on my team to do the same. The fact that we are gradually becoming ever more powerful will solve the problem by itself. Even then though, I would only ever do the content once, or to help someone else. Spamming top end content for gear...shudder...

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

This isn't about elitism at all. This is mostly about some players would like some form of endgame, so they can have something to do after they beat the story. Of course like anything people want rewards for doing it as well. Nobody can say that casual players aren't welcome in FFXIV. Almost all of the content is designed for casual people in mind.

Then there is this tiny little slice of endgame called Coil of Bahamut and Zodiac Weapon quest. There is no penalty for not doing them. And there are decent rewards for the people willing to put in the time to do them. There are also plenty of casual friendly alternatives, mainly the ironworks gear.

But for a chunk of this community, that's not good enough. They have to have EVERYTHING and endgame players can't have ANYTHING that they can't have.

So essentially they are trying to put the developers in a bad situation. Where there can either be no endgame. Or no good rewards for endgame, maybe a title or achievement but thats it. Because if they try to reward endgamers with cutscenes, unique gear, or anything of real worth, you get 100 of these threads.

[DreadRabbit]

But for a chunk of this community, that's not good enough. They have to have EVERYTHING and endgame players can't have ANYTHING that they can't have.

I agree completely that raiders should have special things no one else gets. After all there has to be a reason to even go through the stress and challenge the raid provides. But permit me to play devil's advocate just this once:

There are just as many end-gamers out there that shame "casuals" for not raiding. "What's the point of getting that gear if you're not going to use it?" "You're not a real gamer because you like having your hand held doing easier content." "You don't understand the thrill you're missing." "Raiding isn't hard, [insert reason why it's you and not any of the other several variables that go into raiding]." "There aren't enough people for me to raid with! You should be raiding, darn it!" "Look at these low percentages of clears! This is embarrassing" (yes that last was partially a social experiment, but the replies in that thread can prove many do think that way).

Not every end-gamer does this, just like not every casual screams that they should get what end-gamers get content wise. The vast majority of us that don't like raiding don't give two chocobos about the challenge or the shinies rewarded for completing that challenge. But there's always going to be that vocal minority that states otherwise. Just like there's a vocal minority on here that feels the need to pressure other players into joining them in raiding because it's the only content worth doing to them.

So what happens when non-raiding people try to raid? Rage threads of all kinds from both ends of the spectrum. There's absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging people to try something new, but often it does turn more into peer pressure than it does encouragement. So the type of end-gamers that fall into that category are just as much responsible for putting the developers in a bad decision design wise, because they pressure those players into "keeping up," but then whine even worse because the one piece of content they have gets nerfed because the people they pressured can't do the content as it was originally designed.

TL;DR: it's not just the minority of people wanting everything handed to them that's the problem. It's also the minority of people who think end-game content is the only worthwhile content and try to force others into doing it.

[Boss_Koivula]

I have to agree with what Whocareswhatmynameis said few posts above. These days people seem to have the mindset that anything and everything should be accessible with little to no effort.

Someone mentioned something about doing a quest and then it lets you walk in the raid raid instance to watch a cutscene. I mean what the f*ck. You plant some flowers in the world and next thing you know you see a cutscene where bahamut was dead because it ate the flowers. Is this what you are asking? If the cutscenes are so important I dont understand why people dont put the effort needed so they get to see em in the game instead watching it from youtube.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

I agree completely that raiders should have special things no one else gets. After all there has to be a reason to even go through the stress and challenge the raid provides. .

Yea I understand but it just kills my motivation to do the endgame now, because now all the gear is going to be the same. The only difference is the raiders will be able to dye theirs a diff color and prob get a title. I don't even neccesarily think endgame should have "special" gear, just something unique to endgame. Unique doesn't mean "special snowflake syndrome." At least not to me.

I'm not scared to do the endgame but if all i'm going to get out of it is a title and a pat on the back then why bother?

[DreadRabbit]

I'm not scared to do the endgame but if all i'm going to get out of it is a title and a pat on the back then why bother?

I do think that's wrong and can't blame you. I wish SE would find a better balance. What would be nice is if there were two raids available for each big chunk of end-game instead of just one, each with their own perks rewards (like a mount or a gear with a specific aesthetic design that doesn't look similar to the tomes' equivalent. Not a dang minion).

[ZodMel]

You must look inside your soul for self improvement. See the Megaflares. See the towers. Kill the Adds. Focus on the Divebombs. You must attune yourself fully to Bahamut before he attacks. Only then can you know true victory.

[nuyu11]

Do you guys still remember this thread?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-embarrassing

Yet still arrogantly want only hard coil available?
Check your majority first.

[Sapphic]

You're an idiot who can't read. He actually specifically stated he DOESN'T want nerfs. gg. He's SAYING that having multiple options for different playstyles need to exist so both hardcore players and casuals can be happy and that more hard content should have that option.

Yes and it has been stated that Alex normal will be between WoD difficulty and final coil. It is filling aniche for mid tier difficulty that Yoshi recognized as not being in game due to the forum posts asking for mid tier content. Alex normal isnt aimed at the herpderp face roller crowd, those un able to graps the basics of challenge will not be passing Alex normal. eg those who couldnt even manage the basic mechanics of steps of faith and cried for nerfs.

In reply, in that case easy content, of which there is much, much more of should be given a hard content with higher rewards also.

Taking past content patches over a 6 month period (2 patches) 6 dungeons, 2 HM primals, 2 lots of Hildibrand content, MSQ, 2 lots of moogle quests, whereas for mid tier, 2 extremes of the 2 HM primals and for Hard 1 raid.

Those who are only able to manage easy content get much, much more than the single hard raid. Yet that single piece of content that EVERYONE has access to you want to change.

Selfish much?

[Takfloyd]

Even as someone who's never been in a static raiding group, it offends me when people want the hardcore content to be nerfed just so they can have the same experience as people who put in a ton more effort and dedication.

The entire point of this hard content is the sense of achievement when you beat it, and the reward in form of getting to see the story that follows. It shouldn't be for everyone. Far too much of FFXIV is already so easy it's a boring slog to play, including pretty much every single 4 man dungeon in the game. If you can't be assed to put in some effort, then stick to that.

Making an easy mode and a hard mode for Alexander is not a good move. All it will do is A: Take away all the hype of completing the hard, "proper" mode because you've already seen everything in the easy mode, and B: Ensure that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to get a group for the hard mode precisely because nearly everyone will be content to do the easy mode!