Any new new in NIN's positional so?

[Adire]

snip

I see it as a middle ground. If you increase positionals 5x on NIN, there's less of an option for people who want NO positionals, and more options for people who don't mind/want more positionals. Simply increasing the middleground (DRG) would allow DRG to be more appealing to people who like positionals without encroaching at all on people who do not.

Also, I don't see why making NINs hop to DRG because it's the new lowest is an acceptable solution. Why not just keep NIN the lowest?

And it also doesn't make sense to me. NIN should be doing precise striking, yes. But why would a NIN actively CHOOSE to strike anywhere other than from behind? Why, given that Ninjas are assassins, would it be most beneficial to attack from anywhere other than behind?

You're also getting the wrong idea from my posts...but you are wrong to a degree. Impulse drive used to be positional, did it not? Now it's not positional. Besides that, what I'm saying mostly is that DRG was made easier by removing the importance of positionals. Making something easier after it has had a long established difficulty is not nearly as distasteful as making something harder after its had a long established difficulty. DRGs did not have to relearn how to use their old skills correctly when positional importances were lessened. NINs however will have to when positional importance is increased on old skills.

Also, yes. NIN does have the difficulty to justify its DPS. It is probably easier than MNK, but definitely harder than DRG, BLM, and BRD. Not sure about summoner, but summoner has many issues right now anyways.

And no. Our rotation won't suddenly be harder. Taking into consideration that skills you've learned this entire time now have to be used a different way and trying to figure out how to weave them in when you've got timers counting down everywhere, mudra lag slowing down your entire rotation, and possibly multiple positionals that need doing at the same time however....

And the people who just "don't like to dance" aren't who I'm defending. I enjoy a good AoE dodgefest challenge myself. It's the homogenization choice rather than the creativity and diversity being preserved, the fact that many people just aren't comfortable (physically or mentally) with positional play and enjoy the alternative, and the unfriendliness the job has for positional play that bug me.

Firstly, this is not true. A NIN should never lose to a MNK of equal skill.
NIN is a good bit ahead and has higher base damage.

This is incorrect. It is WELL established that MNK does more base dps than NIN. Proof: http://sim.ffxivguild.net/ (Edit: If you read, some of the calculations are told that they may be off. This simulator is quite accurate for the melee jobs however, since their DPS is more sustained rather than sporadic, RNG dependent, and in bursts like BLM and BRD)

Secondly, you listed a good bit of diverse things you think NIN needs to manage already.
That's the nature of multi-tasking, right?
But then you're adding an arbitrary line saying your character's position shouldn't be one of those things, despite all of those being different types of tasks.

You say NIN difficulty lies else, but to describe it you have to talk about all types of things.
But positionals can't be one of them, because that's where the line is drawn.

If positionals were equivalent to managing timers, people would see them as equivalent to summoner DoT management...there is no line to be drawn here, because performing positionals =/= managing a lot of timers. They are not the same playstyle.

The only positional mistranslation is likely evidence it was always designed with positionals in mind.

I'm pretty sure the fact that they released without positionals says more about their intent than a mistranslation. I think it's a bit odd to say that a mistranslation is more proof that they wanted positionals than a lack of positionals is proof that they didn't want positionals.

But some of these arguments like about difficulty or diversity go way too far, echoing off each other.

I don't think anyone is "going too far" by being concerned about some things, and the arguments may be being repeated quite often, but that should tell you that the sentiments are shared by many people and rightfully so.

[Kallera]

Given everything else that was on my screen, it was nice not to have to worry about running around and potentially into an attack.

And I don't want to deal with monk like positionals in my combo, not while everything else is trying to one shot me and I have to do this that and the other thing while watching my debuffs. I am going to miss something, and I will die.

And I HATE DRG.

[FallenArisen0990]

After really thinking about this, I changed my mind and is all for the positionals. If it means I get to pump out more dmg, than so be it.

[Riepah]

Some players think it takes away from the "spirit" of NIN. The lack of positionals was a selling point for them. Others feel it will isn't fair since we already deal with mundra lag issues. Personally, speaking as someone who has main'd NIN since it released, I won't have any problems with the positionals. The diminishing of Goads importance and a silly enmity tool are the things that bug me, not positionals (though I'm not fond of them simply because they add nothing to the class.)

That's exactly how I feel about it. Adding positionals to NIN just makes me wonder how people are going to justify that they'll surely keep claiming that MNK is OH SO DIFFICULT and NIN is OH SO EASY, but besides that, positionals don't scare me, I won't have an issue with them. But why does Ninja get stuck with 2 babysitter skills, and why is one of them made indirectly less useful by MNKs getting the ability to recover their own TP? And why will we still not see other people's TP bars?

DRG and MNK had amazing new mechanics mentioned in the live letter, NIN was only told that they get to use Raiton more often, an enmity ability, and positionals. How's any NIN supposed to be excited about Heavensward? I was so sure I'd go into Heavensward maining NIN, but the live letter was such a disappointment that I'm not so sure anymore.

It just feels like they intend for NIN to be the other melees' clunky babysitter class, and I don't like that.

[Burningskull]

My main job before Ninja came out was DRG. I play on PS4 so moving while trying to activate buffs / abilities was annoying so I didn't like MNK that much. NIN came out and I loved the idea of a fast job that doesn't hit as hard as DRG but didn't have that many positionals. I never did understand why sneak attack was from the front and trick attack from behind. I kinda thought sneak should be behind the target and trick attack from the side. Guess it was for solo purposes but considering you need hide to use them... meh.

Mudra lag was already making me think of going back to DRG and them adding positionals to current abilities on Ninja kinda sealed the deal. Will still lvl NIN at some point to see the changes tho..

[Massterchef]

Adding positionals to ninja can become a real stress when moving and managing mudras at the same time and meeting your positional hits for max dps output.

It's a real stress if you haven't mastered the class. Once people get accustomed to the rotation then it will be faceroll per usual. If you can't handle positional stipulations on a class then maybe melee's just aren't for you.

[Erudain]

As I've said in the other NIN thread, I play the 3 melee DPS, and I use all of them for different reasons going from personal taste to FC needs, if we need the high sustain dps I go MNK even with all the dancing, if we need burning and heavy hits I will go DGN, if there's no need of anything specific and I don't want to mind much about positionals and such I go NIN.
And that's what I like about the 3 melee, each has it's own way of being played, and I can use all of them depending on my mood.

Now, if SE turns NIN into a MNK with daggers, why the hell would I play NIN? for the looks?
Since I'll have to dance, then I'll just play MNK with the perks of not having to worry about mundras or goading WAR or other melees.