DPS is too slow guys! (OMG!!!)

[Caiera]

See i HUGELY disagree with this "look up a guide" belief. where is the fun in knowing exactly what to do straight away? id rather walk into blind the first time and see how it goes and if it fails then it fails and i can always seek a guide another day. Really the only one i struggled on in doing this was Titan EX

I agree with you, how can you look up a guide anyway on day one launch of a new instance, I prefer to learn it for myself,
unfortunately there are a few people out there that will kick you for it as they have already done it before and expect everyone else to keep up when they want to blitz through with a speed run, and to these people I say that is fine if you go into an instance in a pre-made group, but using DF, you should expect to find people that are doing this for the first time,
I myself like to help out people when I can and take pride when we do eventually get through.

[Souljacker]

I agree with you, how can you look up a guide anyway on day one launch of a new instance, I prefer to learn it for myself,
unfortunately there are a few people out there that will kick you for it as they have already done it before and expect everyone else to keep up when they want to blitz through with a speed run, and to these people I say that is fine if you go into an instance in a pre-made group, but using DF, you should expect to find people that are doing this for the first time,
I myself like to help out people when I can and take pride when we do eventually get through.

For day one content I agree, but at this point in a cycle? We're three weeks out from the new expansion and NONE of this is new content anymore. At some point folks should at least ask their friends the important points they might need to know. Duty Finder isn't the same as tackling content with your mates or forming a learning party in the PF. It's supposed to match people up who are interested in clearing the content without a lot of behind the scenes prep like you would see in PF or putting together a group. I don't think it's too much to ask folks to be a little proactive if they are stepping into the DF.

[Caiera]

Sorry, I would argue that, to any new player, everything is new content for them regardles on how long it has been available, and they shouldn't have to put up with impatient people pushing them through cut scenes, dungeons, raids, etc.
I personally am not prejudiced against anyone learning through DF, especially if they aren't in an FC or LS and have no friends to help them through the content.
Unfortunately it seems that there are a lot more impatient people out there that want to just push on through all the content with little regard for those that want to enjoy the game on their own terms.
Luckily most FC's on my server prides themselves on helping out instead of pushing through, thinking of the team instead of just themselves.

[Souljacker]

Sorry, I would argue that, to any new player, everything is new content for them regardles on how long it has been available, and they shouldn't have to put up with impatient people pushing them through cut scenes, dungeons, raids, etc.
I personally am not prejudiced against anyone learning through DF, especially if they aren't in an FC or LS and have no friends to help them through the content.
Unfortunately it seems that there are a lot more impatient people out there that want to just push on through all the content with little regard for those that want to enjoy the game on their own terms.
Luckily most FC's on my server prides themselves on helping out instead of pushing through, thinking of the team instead of just themselves.

But you just illustrated my point precisely. "New to you" isn't the same as "New" - if the resources are there why not glance at them and save yourself and 7 other people some grief? If you want to go into blind then by all means put together a party for that in PF because that's what it's there for - like minded people to build party with like-minded players. It doesn't necessarily belong in the Duty Finder at this stage in content. There's a reason Coils didn't get put immediately into the DF.

This has nothing at all to do with being "impatient" or just "thinking of themselves". I help those who help themselves. Make even a minimal effort and it goes really far with a lot of people. Put in no effort and you just look lazy or trollish.

[CerberusAngel]

But you just illustrated my point precisely. "New to you" isn't the same as "New" - if the resources are there why not glance at them and save yourself and 7 other people some grief? If you want to go into blind then by all means put together a party for that in PF because that's what it's there for - like minded people to build party with like-minded players. It doesn't necessarily belong in the Duty Finder at this stage in content. There's a reason Coils didn't get put immediately into the DF.

This has nothing at all to do with being "impatient" or just "thinking of themselves". I help those who help themselves. Make even a minimal effort and it goes really far with a lot of people. Put in no effort and you just look lazy or trollish.

New is still new no matter what way you say it. As a new player being only 3 months in those guides or vidoes don't help me one bit if I have no clue how the dungeon works.

[CerberusAngel]

I have been mad rushed thru DF stuff just cause uppers are doing roulette how is that fair to me? I can't learn wtf I am supposed to do in a fight if it's just well lets hurry so I can get outta here. And 9/10 times that's exactly what happens. You wanna take 2 secs give me a piece of advice and then say hey now that you've ran it looking at boss video may help. I get that, I tried it with Titan and failed miserably cause the person on the video had it wrong. So telling someone to go read something or watch something when they don't have a clue what they are looking for may just make it worse, it did for me.

[FrejyaAthenes]

New is still new no matter what way you say it. As a new player being only 3 months in those guides or vidoes don't help me one bit if I have no clue how the dungeon works.

No one sane will tell you that watching/reading a guide will always equal a flawless victory here, it's just better to go into a fight with some knowledge rather than none. There is literally no negative concequence to utilizing information that's been made available.

[TruebladeNuke]

I see this thread has dissolved into yet another argument about what DF is supposed to be for. Why can't people just unite and agree on what it's for already? o/

Alas, no matter what's said about this topic though, people continue to argue back and forth about this. Only one thing to do in this case:

[Ayuhra]

I'm commenting on a DPS thread so before anyone checks me on Lodestone: my gear is terrible, my rotation needs tightening and I still don't understand certain boss telegraphs. If I placed a giant neon sign over my head that said "NOOB" it would be a lateral move.

Still, I have experience DPSing in multiple MMOs at this point and the thing about DPS is you are more likely to see them get belligerent and defensive sometimes. It's sort of a knee-jerk attempt at shifting blame. ANYONE in a MMO may do this but with DPS it's slightly more common because MMO culture tells us we are replaceable. We, as individuals, do not matter. If you are a DPS and you mess up you're gone. Someone else will come in two seconds later. You better have done the content before, you better have the best gear, you better be a subscribed user of WTFast. If you are not, well...there are plenty of people out there who do fit the bill. Especially at this point in a game's lifespan.

Some people can only take so much of this "you are a replaceable number generator" mindset before snapping. Then they usually hit the point where the problem is YOU because maybe "the tank was not doing things I am used to" (even if the tank was following the known strategy perfectly) or "where was heals?" (even if they fell to their deaths) or "I'm having fun, you're just elitist snobs".

The thing to take away from this is: Belligerent DPS are trying to bandage their egos, most of the time. Don't take it personally.

[FrejyaAthenes]

I'm commenting on a DPS thread so before anyone checks me on Lodestone: my gear is terrible, my rotation needs tightening and I still don't understand certain boss telegraphs. If I placed a giant neon sign over my head that said "NOOB" it would be a lateral move.

Still, I have experience DPSing in multiple MMOs at this point and the thing about DPS is you are more likely to see them get belligerent and defensive sometimes. It's sort of a knee-jerk attempt at shifting blame. ANYONE in a MMO may do this but with DPS it's slightly more common because MMO culture tells us we are replaceable. We, as individuals, do not matter. If you are a DPS and you mess up you're gone. Someone else will come in two seconds later. You better have done the content before, you better have the best gear, you better be a subscribed user of WTFast. If you are not, well...there are plenty of people out there who do fit the bill. Especially at this point in a game's lifespan.

Some people can only take so much of this "you are a replaceable number generator" mindset before snapping. At that point they usually hit the point where the problem is YOU because maybe "the tank was not doing things I am used to" (even if the tank was following the known strategy perfectly" or "where was heals?" (even if they fell to their deaths) or "I'm having fun, you're just elitist snobs".

The thing to take away from this is: Belligerent DPS are trying to bandage their egos, most of the time. Don't take it personally.

That reminds me of what someone else posted in one of these topics: The fact that the role itself is called DPS rather than Damager or something like that adds a dehumanizing element. While I'm inclined to agree, what can ya do?

Also, as nice a speech that was, I can't help but feel that last part may have killed your arguement, as someone can easily just respond with "get thicker skin."