DPS is too slow guys! (OMG!!!)

[Amatsuhira]

If the tank is doing their job right, they never drop agro ever.

If only this were true.

[synesthetic]

Well that really depends if the Tank is lower geared that the DPS and whether their attribute points are all in VIT or STR, you can't say they will never drop hate,
Healers can take hate too if they overcure too much :P

If their weapon's iLv is like.. 20 levels lower, versus DPS on their A-game, then... maybe? There's no reason they shouldn't have a weapon within 10-15 of everyone else though.

With a weapon that's 10 levels lower? No, a tank is perfectly capable of maintaining aggro. If they lose it, then that usually means they didn't grab adds fast enough or they're not doing as much as they can be doing. Same deal against an overhealing healer (who shouldn't be overhealing in the first place).

At worst, they should only risk losing aggro at the start. Even with a modestly smaller weapon and a full VIT build, tanks generate enmity at a much faster rate than anyone else.

[Reinha]

If you give feedback in an argumentative way, you're going to get argued back. "Gotta dps faster so we don't hit enrage." or "Dps was too slow so we wiped to enrage." Those would follow the (short and factual) tone of the two previous sentences.

[Miste]

If their weapon's iLv is like.. 20 levels lower, versus DPS on their A-game, then... maybe? There's no reason they shouldn't have a weapon within 10-15 of everyone else though.

At worst, they should only risk losing aggro at the start. Even with a modestly smaller weapon and a full VIT build, tanks generate enmity at a much faster rate than anyone else.

Reminds of the times I load into some old dungeons like AK or Copperbell Hard etc and getting a tank in an i48-i50 weapon....lets just say my BLM ends up tanking...and well it isn't like its the tank's fault, SE lets them queue so its kinda like how would you know you can't do your job in there until you load in with dps with i110 sync weapons.

SE should probably address that problem. I'd hate to be a new tank trying to do my job properly and literally being unable to no matter how well I knew the job...I mean some jobs don't even have quelling but even if I used it; it only staved off hate for a few extra seconds. I ended up tanking all the bosses in there too as a BLM swapping sometimes with the MNK cause my casts would get interrupted.. It wasn't too bad but I think it gives more problems to the healer..

[Amatsuhira]

Clearly the healers are lazy if dps is too low.

[synesthetic]

Reminds of the times I load into some old dungeons like AK or Copperbell Hard etc and getting a tank in an i48-i50 weapon....lets just say my BLM ends up tanking...and well it isn't like its the tank's fault, SE lets them queue so its kinda like how would you know you can't do your job in there until you load in with dps with i110 sync weapons.

SE should probably address that problem. I'd hate to be a new tank trying to do my job properly and literally being unable to no matter how well I knew the job...I mean some jobs don't even have quelling but even if I used it; it only staved off hate for a few extra seconds. I ended up tanking all the bosses in there too as a BLM swapping sometimes with the MNK cause my casts would get interrupted.. It wasn't too bad but I think it gives more problems to the healer..

Oh my gawd, yes. It's stuff like that that makes me wish that iLv or something in the game would subtly teach people how important it is to upgrade their weapons first and foremost.

Back when Titan-HM was like.. the hardest content we had, and people would spam CM, I had a PLD friend who got so mad that he'd always lose hate on adds, and he concluded that Flash was useless. So he stopped bothering. And stopped liking tanking. It wasn't until maybe a month later that we all pieced together how much weapons mattered over armor and accessories, for all roles, and how claiming and bonus enmity work.
And even like half a year later, we had trouble convincing that friend that Flash is -not- useless because of how frustrating tanking was for him due to having a small weapon.

[Nezm]

Positive reinforcement works just as well, when we were on T12 we could of really done with hitting 4 Bennus but were a couple of % short. With reminders throughout P2 [keep pushing dps on the boss guys] we managed fine.

Saying as such though - we recognize during 'training' there is a natural dps shortage. Before you all move to mechanics in auto mode and deal with them the same every single time your DPS won't be the best it can be - DF, or PF groups will also have a naturally lower DPS than a static because they are not hitting everything at the exact same time in the exact same way they have learnt to maximize their dps.

[ffchampion]

See i HUGELY disagree with this "look up a guide" belief. where is the fun in knowing exactly what to do straight away? id rather walk into blind the first time and see how it goes and if it fails then it fails and i can always seek a guide another day. Really the only one i struggled on in doing this was Titan EX

[Adire]

See i HUGELY disagree with this "look up a guide" belief. where is the fun in knowing exactly what to do straight away? id rather walk into blind the first time and see how it goes and if it fails then it fails and i can always seek a guide another day. Really the only one i struggled on in doing this was Titan EX

Look at it from another's point of view: What fun is it and what sense is there in having a party member who is potentially not contributing enough to the group because they choose to be ignorant about something when there is information available about it?

If you can find a group willing to go along with it, that's fine...but you shouldn't be expecting people to let you stumble around more than you have to and possibly hold the group back just because you think about your own fun more than theirs, and you shouldn't force the effects of your willful ignorance of a fight onto others.

[Devils_Lawyer]

Oh look, someone got into a bad group and decided to make a forum topic about it again.