DPS is too slow guys! (OMG!!!)

[Krylo]

snip

The point is that, outside of progression raiding, DPS CAN be lazy and still pass DPS checks. If a healer isn't doing their job people die. This is obvious. A healer must heal (though they can be lazy and not DPS) or people will notice. If a Tank isn't doing their job monsters run all over the place. This is obvious. A tank must hold aggro (though, again, can be lazy and not stance dance/maximize DPS) or people will know. A DPS, on the other hand, can get away with standing behind a boss and hitting 1 over and over again and it's unlikely anyone will notice unless they're watching that DPS specifically or using a third party program. A DPS does not need to DPS (much) because no one will know, so long as the fight is passed. All of this is exacerbated by the fact that DPS outnumber tanks and healers by either 2-1 or more, so there's more DPS to spread the blame around to if things are dying slow: Are all the DPS just kinda mediocre, or is one face rolling while the others are doing good enough to make up for it? Hard to tell without taking time out from your own job to watch them all AND being knowledgeable enough in their jobs to see what they're doing wrong/right or getting a parser (which you can't bring up, anyway).

What this means is that, while there are a good amount of DPS who do put in the work even when they're doing trash dungeons, there's also plenty that queue into CT raids and just do the minimal amount to not be obvious about their laziness. There's also plenty that just don't know the right rotation for their class (maybe they were told the wrong rotation, maybe they just aren't great at video games and never looked anything up, why is irrelevant) and are pulling really terrible numbers and thinking they're doing okay because how bad they are is non-obvious.

[Gardes]

If a Tank isn't doing their job monsters run all over the place. This is obvious. A tank must hold aggro (though, again, can be lazy and not stance dance/maximize DPS) or people will know. A DPS, on the other hand, can get away with standing behind a boss and hitting 1 over and over again and it's unlikely anyone will notice unless they're watching that DPS specifically or using a third party program. A DPS does not need to DPS (much) because no one will know, so long as the fight is passed.

You know, a DPS can actually sabotage the tank's performance in dungeons. I tank the majority of my roulette dungeons and after a bunch of runs I start coming up with patterns around my defensive skills and pulls based on a party's dps output. Mostly based on my vengeance timing, whether I have it on next pull, whether I should compensate with inner beast, whether I can make do with just ToB and conval or just flat out steel cyclone etc. You know, mostly trying to keep a decent sized pull while not being randomly tough and squishy between pulls so that healer doesnt have to second guess when they can go dpsing if they chose to.

Anyway, back to the party's dps output thing, I check their gear and estimate their potential and then deduct it by a bit and then decide to pull 2-3 packs or just 1 pack. Some dps have indeed been able to floor me with how bad they are that the mitigations that I usually allocate to that pull are not enough anymore and I'm becoming dangerously squishy for too long if I don't burn extra mitigation on that first pull alone. But then the party would be falsely thinking that they're at a higher level than what they're actually at and expect me to pull at least the same amount of mobs next, when I already burned my important cds to prevent a wipe caused by super low damage output.

[SirDiscoFrog]

What this means is that, while there are a good amount of DPS who do put in the work even when they're doing trash dungeons, there's also plenty that queue into CT raids and just do the minimal amount to not be obvious about their laziness.

Everyone yells at the tanks when Platinals or Iron Giants are running wild attacking heals, but no one says a word to the Goon in the corner behind a Tower who went AFK lol

I dont think its so much as a double standards it is just easier to attack tanks and healers who are under preforming or even to try to point blame at them for things out of their control. In any case if there are any problem with a run, whether it be tanks losing hate or dps checks not being made, it should be brought up in a polite manner. Babying players helps no one and neither does raging/insulting players. In all cases the problem should be sought out and suggestions should be made as to how to improve. It could be too many deaths/weakness, it could be folk being under-geared, a player could have a faulty rotation, or it could be people being lazy, which unfortunately is easier to do as a dps.

[KisaiTenshi]

The point is that, outside of progression raiding, DPS CAN be lazy and still pass DPS checks.

The thing that is super-irritating as a healer, is that I know who isn't doing their part because I'm watching the hp/mp/cast/buff/debuffs. The DPS that aren't pulling their weight are the ones that aren't using any rotations, or are just straight up standing still.

And you know what, these bums still get carried through raids because they refuse to roll on the loot. As soon as they get the piece the want, they exit the raid.

[Spiritreaver1217]

...Thing is usually DPS just get blamed for everything, really. Starts to get boring after a while.

This. The tank and healer can be super bad and the DPS are the ones who are kicked.

In WoD on first boss and its just a death-fest all around. Tanks are fighting for MT and the eye is spinning like a top. People avoiding the mega-ray-laser-of-death are dying to the floor mechanic or Doom. Not good times.

But i have spent way too much time in that hole and have literally run it mostly asleep many times. So i am up the whole time reapplying my dots and then pretty much raising ppl as soon as the action was was off of cd, was on SMN.

We somehow clear when enough ppl were up and managed a respectable come-back. Tank and a healer in my party let their linkshell conversation carry into party chat and they decide that since i didn't die, i wasn't pulling my weight and should be kicked. And you know what? Even though i raised many of that party, some multiple times, the motion passed and i was kicked.

Never mind the tank and his pissing match with the other tanks, or the healer who literally laid there on the floor a good 5 min or so after i had put raise on him the third time; let's put the near failure of the whole raid-not just our party-on the guy who had the temerity to pay attention to mechanics, do their job, and not die.

So yeah, i totally agree with you two.

[LTEvil]

Oh nice. Thanks for labeling every single DPS lazy then, with that definition(not much progression left in this game. Very clever there Lina.) Being considerate is a lost art in today worlds so I guess you never stopped to consider that maybe there's players out there that work hard as DPS regardless of the "mode" they are playing in.

So we're gonna start this Tank/healer vs DPS, bullshit now?

Well in General from my experience most dps are lazy. Especially in this game since meters are so taboo. It's not personal. I play all roles. But I run into far more bad dps than tanks healers because tanks and healers being bad are noticeable more. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[LTEvil]

snips

Yeah! What he said.

[CerberusAngel]

But you just illustrated my point precisely. "New to you" isn't the same as "New" - if the resources are there why not glance at them and save yourself and 7 other people some grief? If you want to go into blind then by all means put together a party for that in PF because that's what it's there for - like minded people to build party with like-minded players. It doesn't necessarily belong in the Duty Finder at this stage in content. There's a reason Coils didn't get put immediately into the DF.

This has nothing at all to do with being "impatient" or just "thinking of themselves". I help those who help themselves. Make even a minimal effort and it goes really far with a lot of people. Put in no effort and you just look lazy or trollish.

New is still new no matter what way you say it. As a new player being only 3 months in those guides or vidoes don't help me one bit if I have no clue how the dungeon works.

[CerberusAngel]

I have been mad rushed thru DF stuff just cause uppers are doing roulette how is that fair to me? I can't learn wtf I am supposed to do in a fight if it's just well lets hurry so I can get outta here. And 9/10 times that's exactly what happens. You wanna take 2 secs give me a piece of advice and then say hey now that you've ran it looking at boss video may help. I get that, I tried it with Titan and failed miserably cause the person on the video had it wrong. So telling someone to go read something or watch something when they don't have a clue what they are looking for may just make it worse, it did for me.

[Kathryn]

Never mind the tank and his pissing match with the other tanks, or the healer who literally laid there on the floor a good 5 min or so after i had put raise on him the third time; let's put the near failure of the whole raid-not just our party-on the guy who had the temerity to pay attention to mechanics, do their job, and not die.

So yeah, i totally agree with you two.

I completely agree with you and I quoted this part because it's true and annoys me to an extent sometimes as a tank, As nobody moves to pull I usually make the first move get agro and go to move into position another tank will then proceed toprovoke the boss off me so he doesn't have to dps it's annoying as hell but meh I usually let the big boys get on with it until they day and in most cases they do so I end up MT again, My role as a tank to me is to not let anyone die unless it's me and I have sacrificed myself on numerous occassions or done the job of 2 tanks due to a lot of people being glory finders and not knowing what their role is.

If anyone is to die today, It will be me...